[14:54:57] <MusikAnimal>	 hello, I'm having a hard time querying for a category by title. E.g. `SELECT * FROM enwiki_p.category WHERE cat_title = '1967 births';` returns nothing
[15:10:12] <Niharika>	 MusikAnimal: 1967_births :) 
[15:10:34] <MusikAnimal>	 ugh, of course!
[15:11:37] <MusikAnimal>	 okay, another unrelated question... around October 2 all protections applied on enwiki are lacking "UTC" in their expiry. This apparently makes it possible to figure out what timezone the admin is in. What happened?
[15:12:58] <Reedy>	 Presumably some fallout from a deployment
[15:12:59] <Glaisher>	 protect log was recently migrated to the new system but I don't think that it allows you to figure out the timezone of the admin?
[15:13:33] <MusikAnimal>	 it apparently saves in whatever timezone you are in, so if you observe it as it is applied you can figure out the offset from UTC
[15:15:43] <MusikAnimal>	 or maybe it doesn't... I think it's messing with the time conversion gadget. Let me ask these other users who brought it up
[15:15:58] <MusikAnimal>	 basically "(UTC)" is no longer in the expiry, when it probably should be
[15:16:23] <Reedy>	 File a task and someone will tell you more categorically if you're wrong ;)
[15:16:30] <Reedy>	 and if you are, why ;D
[15:16:40] <Glaisher>	 You could add "UTC" to the i18n message
[15:16:55] * Reedy coughs
[15:16:56] <Reedy>	 hack
[15:16:58] * Reedy coughs
[15:17:02] <Glaisher>	 :D
[15:18:50] <MusikAnimal>	 on it, thanks
[15:19:23] <Glaisher>	 MusikAnimal: actually wait
[15:19:29] <MusikAnimal>	 ok
[15:19:31] <Glaisher>	 looks like it uses the user language
[15:19:34] <Glaisher>	 not the content language
[15:20:04] <Glaisher>	 (i.e., it will change depending on the user's interface language)
[15:20:12] <Glaisher>	 previously, it used the content language, I assume?
[15:20:23] <Glaisher>	 ugh
[15:20:25] <MusikAnimal>	 huh?
[15:20:25] <Glaisher>	 timezone
[15:20:29] <Glaisher>	 not language :P
[15:20:33] <MusikAnimal>	 okay haha
[15:21:17] <MusikAnimal>	 well, I just protected my sandbox for 3 hours and it is correct: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=protect&user=MusikAnimal&page=&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=
[15:21:26] <MusikAnimal>	 expires 18:07 UTC
[15:21:52] <MusikAnimal>	 but UTC is not in that string, so if you are logged in and have the timezone gadget turned on it looks incorrect
[15:22:14] <MusikAnimal>	 or maybe MediaWiki changed to always show timestamps in your timezone?
[15:22:38] <Glaisher>	 only the protect log was changed recently
[15:23:09] <MusikAnimal>	 you see what I'm saying though right? I think just the "(UTC)" is missing, throwing off the gadget, which I assume you are also using?
[15:23:30] <Glaisher>	 I don't think I have that gadget enabled
[15:23:48] <Glaisher>	 but it's not needed anymore, right?
[15:23:58] <MusikAnimal>	 yes, I think so
[15:24:06] <Glaisher>	 for the protect log, at least
[15:24:13] <MusikAnimal>	 when I look at my protection log the times are in UTC, it just doesn't say UTC
[15:25:19] <Glaisher>	 This should probably be mentioned in Tech News.
[15:25:20] <MusikAnimal>	 going to proceed with this phab report. What "project" would this fall under?
[15:25:23] <MusikAnimal>	 yes
[15:25:28] <Glaisher>	 logging
[15:25:33] <Glaisher>	 wait.. how is this a bug?
[15:25:38] <Glaisher>	 mediawiki-logging
[15:25:50] <MusikAnimal>	 it was 2 October, and the 5 October tech news said nothing about it
[15:26:20] <MusikAnimal>	 it's a bug because other timestamps still say UTC but for logs it does not
[15:26:27] <MusikAnimal>	 it's just inconsistent
[15:27:23] <Glaisher>	 all the logs are going to be migrated to the new system eventually but yeah the inconsistency is bad
[15:29:00] <Glaisher>	 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T47988#1715401
[15:41:28] <MusikAnimal>	 okay
[15:42:07] <MusikAnimal>	 really confused, but to put it simply, the times are not in my timezone, they just don't say UTC. I think before the gadget actually wasn't converting the times, and now it is
[15:42:37] <MusikAnimal>	 my protection log, which correctly shows when I protected and the expiry in UTC (it just doesn't say UTC): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?action=view&user=MusikAnimal&type=protect
[15:43:04] <MusikAnimal>	 with the timezone gadget on it is correctly converted to my timezone. I think before it was not
[15:43:11] <MusikAnimal>	 and that's why everyone is confused
[15:45:46] <Glaisher>	 can't an exception be added to the gadget?
[15:47:57] <MusikAnimal>	 so confused... the example above makes sense. but then look at this while logged out (or without the gadget): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?action=view&page=Robin_Williams&type=protect
[15:48:12] <MusikAnimal>	 protected at 5:07, expires 5:07
[15:48:43] <MusikAnimal>	 with the gadget on I see it was protected at 1:07 and expires 5:07
[15:49:03] <MusikAnimal>	 (I'm in NYC, UTC-4:00)
[15:49:07] * Glaisher goes on to turn the gadget on
[15:49:23] <MusikAnimal>	 so in that situation, where UTC was provided, it only converted the first one. It kept the UTC time in UTC
[15:49:49] <MusikAnimal>	 the first time doesn't say UTC
[15:49:52] <MusikAnimal>	 ok this makes sense
[15:50:03] <MusikAnimal>	 going to post at WP:VPT with my findings
[16:55:33] <snitch>	 [[Tech]]; Peterjohns48; /* 1-800-231-8174 WINDOWS XP TECHNICAL SUPPORT NUMBER Fasten up the processing time. If your Windows is slow at the start-up */ new section; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=14033619&oldid=14018886&rcid=6876841
[16:55:43] <snitch>	 [[Tech]]; Tegel; Reverted changes by [[Special:Contributions/Peterjohns48|Peterjohns48]] ([[User talk:Peterjohns48|talk]]) to last version by Ruslik0; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=14033623&oldid=14033619&rcid=6876842
[17:42:25] <Nemo_bis>	 hurray, priority now is well-defined! https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Phabricator%2FProject_management&type=revision&diff=1910769&oldid=1910724 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well-defined )
[18:48:36] <spagewmf>	 Volker_E: what's the convention for CSS variables, specifically in skins? Many extensions use "ext-<lowercase-extension-name>-var", what should skins do?
[18:49:15] <spagewmf>	 Volker_E: apparently "blueprintSidebarStuff" isn't good enough :)
[18:50:06] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: oh, you're talking about CSS class names, because there's also CSS vars coming up soon 
[18:50:43] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: all lowercase and broken up by dashes
[18:50:49] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Coding_conventions/CSS
[18:51:37] <spagewmf>	 Volker_E: Yes, but specifically skins.  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Coding_conventions/CSS doesn't mention "ext-<lowercase-extension-name>-var", I'll add it.  Should skins be the same, or "skin-<skinname>-var", or ??
[18:53:15] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: that's not the purpose of CSS, it's not useful (IMHO) to put skin-<skinname>-var there 
[18:53:31] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: because the CSS _is_ the skin
[18:54:39] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: So it'd be an unnecessary redundancy here
[18:55:03] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: but now I understand where you were coming from...
[18:55:11] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: :)
[18:56:10] <spagewmf>	 Volker_E: https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Manual%3ACoding_conventions%2FCSS&action=historysubmit&type=revision&diff=1911499&oldid=1905408 adds the ext-lowercase- convention.  Surely skins have to worry about conflicting with IDs generated by the wikitext parser too?
[18:56:47] <Volker_E>	 nice
[18:59:27] <spagewmf>	 Volker_E: per-skin variables seem pretty rare. vectorTabs is the equivalent to Blueprint, but View-Edit-History and <Namespace>-Discussion are not tabs in Blueprint, so I'm really struggling with naming them
[18:59:57] <Volker_E>	 yeah, true. But you can't fully separate a skin's special added functionality from the rest of the skinnable DOM structure
[19:00:28] <Volker_E>	 Here's an overview of currently in use classes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Catalogue_of_CSS_classes -- take care, it's horrific ;)
[19:00:54] * spagewmf tortures Volker_E: I need a name! GIVE ME A NAME!! :-)
[19:01:21] <Volker_E>	 haha, yeah, give me a sec to think about it
[19:02:26] <Volker_E>	 what was the corresponding patchset?
[19:02:43] <spagewmf>	 Volker_E: thanks, or I'll name it VOLKER_MUST_RENAME in next https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/243056/
[19:06:27] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: so, it should be `sidebar-`
[19:06:47] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: what would be a meta-term for views and namespaces?
[19:07:44] <Volker_E>	 you could also call it sidebar-views and sidebar-namespaces
[19:07:59] <Volker_E>	 = appropriate as well
[19:09:57] <spagewmf>	 Volker_E: I like that, thanks! from my notes in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114338, Example names them "mw-portlet", so the generic class is sidebar-portlet? Or I could just style the two IDs #p-views and #p-names.
[19:10:38] <Volker_E>	 so there's also https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/242425/1
[19:12:24] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: which changes `side-menu` to `sidebar` and therefore will clean up the classes situation in the sidebar
[19:14:49] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: No, we don't wan't to style ids any more in CSS, in order to later overwrite it somewhere else, you have to include higher specifity
[19:14:59] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: see for further information http://csswizardry.com/2012/05/keep-your-css-selectors-short/
[19:16:18] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: to cite from that "[s]pecificity is a nightmare and you should keep specificity as low as possible all of the time."
[19:20:19] <Volker_E>	 spagewmf: so please add `sidebar-portlet` to both or `sidebar-views` and `sidebar-namespaces` or `sidebar-portlet sidebar-views` and `sidebar-portlet sidebar-namespaces`. I'd personally right now go for the latter
[19:36:49] <spagewmf>	 O skin authors, what does the #p- prefix in #p-logo, #p-search, #p-views mean?  And what is #p-c in #p-cactions overflow menu?
[19:45:29] <Krenair>	 spagewmf, portlet?
[19:46:35] <Krenair>	 spagewmf, cactions is Content Actions
[19:46:56] <spagewmf>	 Krenair thanks for answering my questions in any channel 24x7. Krenair for CTO!
[19:47:01] <Krenair>	 haha
[19:48:15] <spagewmf>	 Krenair: I guessed portlet too. Most are in the persnal area, but not #p-logo. skins/Example uses mw-portlet class, but nothing else does.
[19:48:30] <Krenair>	 spagewmf, for reference, I found that info here: 
[19:48:48] <Krenair>	 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/MW/browse/master/resources/src/mediawiki/mediawiki.util.js
[19:49:35] <Krenair>	 see the docs for addPortletLink
[19:49:45] <spagewmf>	 Krenair: thx.  I thought you were going to say https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Catalogue_of_CSS_classes , that thing is huge.
[19:50:05] <Krenair>	 I tend not to go to enwiki looking for technical documentation :)
[19:54:12] <spagewmf>	 Krenair: note your https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Krenair has the dreaded <translate> plague now that {{Soft redirect} has been i18n-ized. I want to halt this until templates don't break on un-translated page, but I don't know who is the Mussolini of mediawiki.org 
[19:55:52] <Krenair>	 urgh, that extension again
[19:59:20] <Krenair>	 spagewmf, I reverted it, thanks
[20:04:13] <spagewmf>	 Krenair (sorry to monopolize you), where should I discuss this with mw.org admins and i18n people like Shirayuki (who does amazing i18n work BTW)?  It seems every time someone makes a mw.org template work with i18n, it breaks on all the pages that don't use {{TNT|Some_template|...}}
[20:08:01] <Nemo_bis>	 [[Project talk:Language policy]
[20:14:00] <Krenair>	 ^
[21:07:41] <spagewmf>	 Krenair, Nemo_bis thx, I linked to new topic on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Current_issues
[21:17:20] <Krenair>	 spagewmf, thanks
[21:17:31] <Krenair>	 spagewmf, Template:Translated_soft_redirect ? :)
[21:17:49] <Krenair>	 if someone wants to do this to a template, they should at least fix all callers
[21:17:58] <Krenair>	 just like we would when making breaking changes in software
[21:18:30] <spagewmf>	 self-aware i18n machinery that knows what kind of page it's on. Then Skynet :)