[03:32:55] the loading spinner's gone on commons's visualfilechange gadget. didn't we do something in mediawiki to break a spinner recently? [05:11:16] Can I have a personal sitenotice? Something done in wiki markup that appears at the top or at the bottom. (Without JavaScript). [05:12:07] on ur userpage? [05:18:45] yeah, what does personal mean? [05:21:43] At the top of anything I visit (especially when I view or edit a main namespace article) [05:21:44] [[User:Svetlana/Editnotice]] ? [05:21:59] not only when I edit my own userpage... or does it do more than that? [05:22:09] oh that...get a memo :P [05:23:43] what is a memo? [05:27:02] yellow sticky pad, write on it and stick it on top of ur monitor screen, ur own personal sitenotice.. TADA!.. :D [05:29:33] it does have to parse {{TALKPAGENAMEE}} and other pretty things [05:39:14] i don't know if sticky notes can do that [05:39:19] you could file a bug [07:10:27] lol https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17577#c24 [10:41:57] does a 'spam' mailing list exist? to graze a new mail client on [10:43:36] We don't have one at least [10:44:21] well that's not well defined [10:44:27] we have wikibugs-l [10:45:02] Not exactly spam though [10:45:10] Just spammy [11:29:03] anybody here any good at debugging issues with the Convert module ? [11:29:58] {{convert|340|PS|bhp|abbr=on}} doesn't convert, {{convert|339|PS|bhp|abbr=on}} and {{convert|341|PS|bhp|abbr=on}} does, perfectly. [11:37:10] aren't modules wiki-specific rather than global? [11:37:51] dunno about this one, certainly the units lists appear to be [11:42:15] yeah, the units and conversion must be local, given they're language specific [11:42:50] in this case, converting between metric and imperial horsepower works fine for 339 and 341, just not 340. [11:44:16] hmm, it's the same for any number ending in a 0, it doesn't convert. [11:45:31] wonder if it's creating a number so long it does something weird. 340 PS should convert to 335.348824011 hp [12:24:35] Does "Cannot redeclare class languageconverter" from LanguageSr appear in the error logs? [12:25:35] dunno where the error logs are for it [12:26:58] This is unrelated to your Module:Convert issue [12:27:33] OK. [12:29:35] Krenair: yes [12:31:21] only a handful of times in 5.5 hours [12:31:26] but a bunch before that [12:32:06] any idea what's causing it? [12:33:17] no. doesn't line up with anything in SAL. started at 00:55 UTC [12:33:57] i was getting it on [[commons:category:wikimania 2012]] [12:33:58] you? [12:34:41] I don't get it on that page. [12:34:58] i haven't tried in a while [12:35:07] and it's not always languagesSr [12:35:11] varies [12:35:16] Zh was the most common [12:35:33] I would imagine it affects all variant languages [14:09:49] any reason why wikipedia adds a cookie called "forceHTTPS" ? [14:13:45] nw when i remove that cookie, i get this when trying to log back in "[c0d0b4cc] 2014-09-10 14:12:53: Fatal exception of type MWException" [14:15:17] lol can no longer log into any wikis...thanks.. [14:23:49] warpath, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29898 [14:24:21] <^d> Well, that's what forceHTTPS does as a cookie, yes. [14:24:36] <^d> I'm trying to find what causes that exception but Wikibase is spamming the exception log. [14:26:09] i have to delete all cookies related to centralauth from my browser from all wiki domain to be able to login again.. [14:27:10] u guys need to allow users to deselect forced https from https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences :\ [14:29:11] warpath, see https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69319#c2 [14:32:59] yeah i started that bug, its kinda irritating really...if by mistake u edited a page on https, u will get stuck there and the only way to remove it is to force logout of all wikis and when u are one of those few users that edits ACROSS wikimedia, it becomes a problem... :| [14:35:28] Why do you not want to browse with HTTPS? [14:35:33] Krenair: +1 [14:38:11] warpath? [14:38:16] its explained in that bug.. [14:38:54] everyone who says its fast in https don't realise their ISP's runs on megabytes, not kilobytes.. [14:39:40] i live in a third world country, i get excited when my internet speed gets 100kbps my some remote luck.... [14:41:32] warpath: https doesn't require measurably more bandwidth than http. if it is indeed slower, then something else must be causing that [14:42:54] Well there is the few extra KBs added by the handshake, and the client must download the CRL, etc. [14:43:03] (the initial connection requires some additional data transfer, but after it is done, the encrypted data is the same size as the original) [14:43:04] well https does take a longer route (for security reasons) so it does make it slower.. [14:43:17] longer router? [14:43:19] what do you mean by "route"? [14:43:20] route* [14:43:32] i did a trace route for https and http, it took a bit longer with https.. [14:44:00] huh. [14:44:54] i'm not an expert, but i'd say that's generally not supposed to happen. can you pastebin it somewhere? perhaps someone will have some insights [14:45:30] i think i discussed this here a few times over the last year, no outcome lol.. [14:47:23] whatever, then [14:47:44] warpath: curious as to high you differentiated between HTTP and HTTPS as arguments to traceroute [14:47:53] s/high/how/ [14:48:36] * Reedy grabs some popcorn [14:48:59] for https, i used the https://login.wikimedia.org/ option, no matter what u do, u cant change that to http :) [14:49:08] <_joe_> warpath: what do you mean with 'traceroute for https'? [14:49:14] * warpath slaps Reedy [14:49:17] <_joe_> what command did you use exactly? [14:49:28] i used a program, winsuperkit. [14:49:43] <_joe_> oh never heard of that, taking a look [14:50:04] <_joe_> warpath: you tested login.wikimedia.org? [14:50:17] inded [14:50:33] <_joe_> I don't know what your program does [14:50:45] <_joe_> but test en.wikipedia.org instead please [14:51:52] <_joe_> but, if it's really doing a traceroute [14:52:02] <_joe_> http or https have no meaning in that context [14:52:17] 12 hopes for en.wiki, 15 for login.wikimedia [14:52:57] <_joe_> if it's measuring http response latency, I can imagine there is a small difference [14:53:22] warpath, if you ping both of them, what hostname do you get back? [14:55:22] sorry program crashed, trying something else [14:55:45] Just use tracert/ping on the command line? [14:55:48] Where in the world are you? [14:56:21] <_joe_> warpath: btw, that https connections appear to be slower than http ones is expected, as the total network payload is somewhat larger [14:56:52] Reedy, fiji lol :P [14:57:35] Oh, it's you [14:57:40] * Reedy glares at cometstyles [14:57:49] <_joe_> but not that larger [14:57:51] Which datacentre do you even end up at? [14:57:52] Beautiful country but not the best internet connectivity in my experience [14:58:21] 414ms on ping [14:58:27] <_joe_> Reedy: I guess ulsfo [14:58:29] is that normal? [14:58:38] <_joe_> warpath: ping what? [14:58:42] * warpath slaps Reedy [14:58:44] <_joe_> it's very high [14:58:46] to localhost that's a lot [14:58:47] u forgot me so soon? :'( [14:59:11] I asked where you were before looking at your hostmask [14:59:13] _joe_: not so high for fiji me thinks [15:00:01] I would actually naively guess that Fiji ends up in esams or eqiad because they connect via south east asia. [15:00:32] warpath: Start -> Run -> cmd -> tracert en.wikipedia.org [15:00:37] Then pastebin the lot for us [15:00:41] eqiad actually [15:00:53] That seems somewhat stupid [15:01:01] When ULSFO is a few thousand miles closer [15:01:27] Not as the bits travel. No cable from west coast US to there [15:01:38] so vanuatu consistently had > 600ms on ripe atlas tests [15:01:38] But there is to EQIAD? [15:01:51] I've no idea what routing it would take... ie via AUS then onto the US west coast? [15:02:07] * Reedy waits for a pastebinned traceroute [15:02:17] it goes via australia (before my winsuperkit crashed) [15:02:35] As I said, do it via command prompt and pastebin it [15:02:46] warpath: tracert en.wikipedia.org [15:03:06] its still doing it akosiaris :| [15:03:13] 5000000 hops [15:03:58] 22 hops, anyone knws howi can copy/paste it? [15:04:05] pastebin [15:04:10] aaa from the cmd ? [15:04:12] Click on the icon in the top left [15:04:18] yeha how to copy from cmd :| [15:04:19] Edit -> Select all [15:04:22] Then press enter [15:04:33] should be in clipboard then [15:05:18] http://pastebin.com/uLs57FzD [15:05:25] Oh I'm wrong. There is a cable from Suva to Hawaii to Portland. Not sure what carriers are on it. -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Cross_Cable [15:06:08] Yeah, it is ULSFO [15:06:23] warpath: Does login.wikimedia.org end up at EQIAD or something? [15:06:27] was eqiad a few weeks back.... :\ [15:07:04] Authed traffic would backhaul from ulsfo to eqiad though right? ulsfo is only a caching center. [15:07:18] Right [15:08:05] bd808: that would not show up on traceroute [15:08:41] ulsfo would still terminate the SSL connections [15:09:49] <_joe_> akosiaris: it's high in general, not for the fikis [15:09:52] warpath: Are you just using vodafone as an ISP? Or are you using some wireless based connection too? [15:09:54] <_joe_> *fijis [15:10:32] vodafone is our ISP, i use it via HSDPA (usb flash net) [15:10:34] <_joe_> I think a big boost in that situation can be given by using the mobile version of the site, which I imagine is optimized for high-latency networks [15:10:55] <_joe_> oh so it's 3G + fijis, 400 ms is definitely _very_ good [15:11:24] <_joe_> bbiab [15:11:29] its excellent on http, crappyish on https :\ [15:11:50] and vodafone fiji is better than vodafone greece when it comes to ICMP as it seems [15:11:56] _joe_, I'm not sure that would be too useful for warpath [15:12:12] here they do something with the TTL and I seem to be 4 hops away from anything [15:12:50] anyplace in the world is 4 hops away. 2 of which is 10.0.0.0/8 IPs and the 3 does not reply to ICMP requests [15:12:59] we recently got 4G but its expensive as hell.. [15:13:33] getting 4gbs for USD$15 is a rip off .. [15:14:27] I get 1GB for the equivalent of $16 USD [15:14:29] on 4G [15:15:45] �10 Giffgaff goodybag, Reedy? [15:15:52] Indeed [15:16:00] Rip off britain [15:16:56] yeah, am using that at the moment. My SIM doesn't support 4g though. [15:17:11] need to change it at some point. [15:17:20] <^d> Best part of the Giffgaff sims was giving one to a CDMA user :p [15:17:24] xD [15:17:26] <^d> Much confusion ensued. [15:17:29] Krenair: Just order a new one. Swap over is pretty quick [15:17:49] Reedy, yeah that $15 is for 3G.. [15:18:15] * warpath misses his unlimited dialup for USD$12 :( [15:18:23] I've still got 6 Standard/Micro sims, and 8 nano ones [15:19:39] for what it's worth, i get 3GB 4G traffic (gprs afterwards) for 14€ ($18 US) [15:19:53] (germany) [15:20:37] Krenair: Reedy btw, giffgaff seems to 'block 18+ content' by default, and wouldn't let me turn that off without giving them a valid passport number! [15:20:49] YuviPanda: No mobile porn for you. [15:20:55] YuviPanda: It's a standard UK policy IIRC [15:21:02] opted in by default? [15:21:08] yeah [15:21:11] and can't turn off without a *passport* number? [15:21:18] I think you can use a driving license number too [15:21:19] yea, it's opt out, rather than opt in ;) [15:22:40] <^d> I prefer not to think about how much I pay for mobile data + broadband at home. [15:22:47] <^d> It's the US, so it's obviously overpriced. [15:23:45] ah Cameron's filter. So, any chance they 'll see the folly behind that ? [15:24:28] and make it opt in ? Where people will actually pay for a service supposedly meant to protect their kids ? [15:24:56] My parents internet connection blocks tpb [15:24:58] It amuses me highly [15:26:08] hehe [15:26:29] our government doesn't block porn or pirating ^_^ [15:27:46] ours started blocking illegal gambling sites [15:28:01] our's is to incompetent to do it, and too well informed to try (they would probably have a riot on their hands ... [15:29:21] <^d> Our government doesn't block anything. They just watch the whole internet so they know what everyone does. [15:34:43] Big Brother is watching you..................wank ;) [15:35:07] YuviPanda, Reedy: yeah, you can give it a driving license number [15:35:16] which I don't have [15:35:17] just have to change the year so it makes you 18+. [15:35:23] lol [15:35:24] (yes, this actually works.) [15:35:26] Regex ftw [15:35:28] heh [15:35:42] I wonder if it'll take my passport number at all, non UK and all [15:36:29] Sounds like you could just fake a driving license number tbh [15:36:39] Might need to change some other letters to match your name and such [15:36:50] heh [15:36:55] too much work [15:37:05] No porn for you [15:37:12] I'll just let them count me among those who haven't opted out for their own protection [16:07:41] [9d8436e6] 2014-09-10 16:00:37: Fatal exception of type MWException [16:07:57] Where? [16:08:04] I edit a page. Then when it was saved it said that I was logged out. I pressed log in and it got me to that error message [16:08:10] commons, I think [16:08:55] SpecialCentralLogin.php: The user account logged into does not exist [16:08:56] Sweet [16:08:58] Sounds like a bug [16:09:07] I also got the same error today when tried to login [16:09:14] i pointed the same thing earlier O_O [16:09:18] * Reedy dumps in bugzilla [16:09:20] warpath: behave [16:09:22] phew, so nit just me screwed \o/ [16:09:44] warpath, did you find out that was the exact error? [16:09:55] Or did you just see 'Fatal exception of type MWException', which could be loads of things? [16:10:10] blank page with that on top [16:10:27] i deleted my cookies on centralauth and it got fixed.. [16:10:31] legoktm: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70660 [16:11:06] eh, that's a dupe [16:11:07] yay more bugs \o/ [16:11:17] Reedy: we fixed it, just not deployed/backported [16:11:17] gj bugzilla [16:11:34] legoktm: I suspect we probably should before wmf20 hits wikipedia then :) [16:11:38] nappy time..bye nerds o/ [16:12:12] the bug is already live everywhere I think [16:12:21] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/158547/ is the patch [16:37:19] Reedy: poke? [16:37:28] or whoever knows about jobrunners [16:37:34] just going into a meeting with greg-g [16:37:40] jeremyb: Try AaronSchulz maybe [16:37:51] well, quick question [16:38:03] should they have a full mediawiki? or just the jobrunner codebase [16:38:06] Reedy [16:38:12] They need full mediawiki [16:38:16] Jobs exist in extensions etc [16:38:17] ok, great [16:38:26] It can potentially run nearly any of the mediawiki code [16:38:32] k [16:38:56] <^d> Reedy: That sounds like a challenge. "Make a job that uses all of MW" [16:39:24] what should i give ^d to distract him? [16:39:47] it's an elasticsearch shard running away! [16:39:58] <^d> Meh, it'll find a home eventually :) [16:40:01] quick, catch it [18:46:40] what to do with the /topic [18:46:44] Did anyone figure it out [18:59:23] Steinsplitter: Heh. Thanks for autopatrol though I notice I didn't even edit my user page with the right account (yeay! SUL+two accounts) [19:11:10] Coren: SUL finalization ftw :D [19:14:21] Coren: oh :D popped up on my watchlist