[00:05:48] <kaldari>	 superm401: So if we fork external code instead of copying directly, what's the convention for indicating that? I haven't seen any consistent patterns regarding this in our codebase. Any ideas?
[00:07:29] <kaldari>	 I guess I should just not put it in anything called 'external'
[02:59:13] <huh>	 too many redirects?
[02:59:31] <huh>	 ping, anyone here
[02:59:40] <Writ_Keeper>	 fix it
[02:59:48] <huh>	 Writ_Keeper: too many redirects?
[02:59:56] <Writ_Keeper>	 yup
[03:00:02] <huh>	 I thought it was just me
[03:00:47] <Writ_Keeper>	 me and several others, actually
[03:01:14] <Dragonfly6-7>	 me too
[03:01:23] * Romaine  has same problem

[03:01:41] <Writ_Keeper>	 fix ittttt
[03:02:37] <huh>	 <TimStarling> !log reverting apache change
[03:02:41] <huh>	 Writ_Keeper: does it work now?
[03:03:01] <Writ_Keeper>	 seems to be
[03:03:07] <Writ_Keeper>	 thanks, techies
[03:03:11] <gadfium>	 Yes, both mi and en working now
[03:03:49] <huh>	 Fixed in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/106109/
[03:05:58] <huh>	 * that's the change that broke it (?) :P
[08:18:45] <cortexA9>	 hi mlitn 
[08:19:13] <mlitn>	 hi cortexA9 
[08:31:21] <cortexA9>	 there is already a project for improve wikimedia servers and related?
[08:37:37] <twkozlowski>	 cortexA9: How do you mean?
[08:42:24] <cortexA9>	 twkozlowski: i mean as a volunteer
[08:43:46] <matanya>	 cortexA9: you want to volunteer with ops ?
[08:44:10] <cortexA9>	 matanya: is it possible?
[08:44:37] <matanya>	 yes, it is. https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Get_involved
[08:46:00] <matanya>	 cortexA9: ^
[08:46:44] <cortexA9>	 matanya: thanks
[11:41:25] <matanya>	 andre__: where do i report bugs in beta features in buzilla (compact personal bar)? under what component ? 
[11:42:00] <MatmaRex>	 matanya: VectorBeta extension
[11:42:20] <MatmaRex>	 matanya: that is, the compact personal bar goes there, various beta features go into different components
[11:42:37] <matanya>	 thanks MatmaRex 
[11:42:40] <MatmaRex>	 matanya: also, some beatfeature creators disregard the bugs and just read the discussion page. so, consider yourself warned
[11:43:04] <matanya>	 i'll report a bug and link to the discussion page
[13:32:48] <yannf>	 hello
[13:32:58] <yannf>	 Error undeleting file: The file mwstore://local-swift-eqiad/local-deleted/7/v/i/7vinndy0g2n4tw9lewwymkr7iyq6u8g.jpg does not exist.
[13:33:04] <yannf>	 https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=File%3AArgentina78.JPG
[13:33:13] <yannf>	 what's that?
[14:19:23] <yannf>	 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40437 this is tagged as major since 2012
[14:44:55] <andre__>	 yannf: correct. major = "Major loss of function in an important area"
[14:45:52] <yannf>	 could something be done about this bug?
[14:47:05] <andre__>	 yannf: Yeah, would be a good timing now that there's a new testcase. I've commented it on
[14:47:05] <yannf>	 thanks
[14:47:10] <andre__>	 ...and renamed it to:   Missing file in swift on Commons ("Error undeleting file: The file [...] does not exist.
[14:58:02] <matanya>	 andre__: yannf _joe_ is working on this from ops perspective 
[14:59:58] <andre__>	 oh thanks
[15:03:37] <Lydia_WMDE>	 manybubbles: poke :)
[15:19:56] <yannf>	 matanya, thanks
[15:31:59] <manybubbles>	 Lydia_WMDE: oh!
[15:32:26] <Lydia_WMDE>	 manybubbles: hey :)  just writing an email with our topics. should be doable via email
[15:32:34] <manybubbles>	 k.  sorry!
[15:32:45] <Lydia_WMDE>	 np
[15:46:40] <Lydia_WMDE>	 manybubbles: oh i didn't get to talking to the students about the python comments you had. did you already also post them to them somewhere? otherwise i will forward them the email
[15:47:19] <manybubbles>	 Lydia_WMDE: hmmm - I didn't post them anywhere because I wasn't really sure where to.  please forward them the email!
[15:47:32] <Lydia_WMDE>	 manybubbles: ok cool - will do
[15:54:23] <akio>	 Not sure if this is the right channel for wikimedia help...
[15:55:25] <akio>	 Looks close enough.
[15:55:57] <akio>	 I was wondering what bad things will happen if two different wiki installs are using the same database/tables?
[15:56:43] <akio>	 Basically I have been forced to present a wiki on a different network than it was born on, and I would like to keep using inthe old manner.
[16:07:27] <closedmouth>	 akio: #mediawiki
[16:08:35] <akio>	 closedmouth: thanks, i'm thinking of using a reverse proxy
[17:41:52] <sumanah>	 I am working on improving the Performance guidelines page and would like to know more about our CDNs. I've searched wikitech.wikimedia.org, the wikitech-l archives, and mediawiki.org and I'm not getting much, but maybe that's because "cdn" is too short a search string
[17:42:01] <sumanah>	 and no one actually writes out "content delivery network"
[17:43:33] <greg-g>	 we don't really have a CDN in the common sense
[17:44:14] <greg-g>	 we have caching centers (ULSFO, ESAMS) in addition to our DCs (texas and eqiad) (no real need to mention tampa, it doesn't serve traffic directly)
[17:44:23] <sumanah>	 I think I understand that we have some kind of Varnish-related CDN of our own devising that lives in Amsterdam & SFO? to reduce latency? 
[17:44:29] <greg-g>	 that
[17:44:44] <greg-g>	 yeah, ULSFO and ESAMs are just varnishs (mostly)
[17:45:05] <greg-g>	 we thus are our own "cdn"
[17:45:33] <greg-g>	 (I put it in scare quotes becuase most people think of cdns as being much more distributed than 3 locations ;) )
[17:45:56] <sumanah>	 ok. so, at this point I think I am kind of confused, because I know that we have these frontline Varnish caches (that have entire HTTP responses cached in memory), and the secondary ("backend") Varnishes which cache entire HTTP responses on disk.
[17:46:15] <sumanah>	 But is there a THIRD set of Varnishes that we separate out as "the cdn"?
[17:46:46] <greg-g>	 nope
[17:47:04] <greg-g>	 which is why I said we don't have a CDN in the common sense.
[17:47:26] <sumanah>	 (and I understand that the point of a cdn (or a "cdn") is to be distributed geographically, to reduce the effect of the inherent latency of the speed of light on our users)
[17:47:32] * greg-g  nods

[17:47:44] <sumanah>	 Like, when I think "CDN" I think "akamai"
[17:48:05] <greg-g>	 which is why we are wanting (no eta what so ever) to open more caching centers (the term Ops uses) in more geolocations (eg oceania)
[17:48:11] <sumanah>	 Right, yeah
[17:48:14] * sumanah  nods

[17:48:19] <greg-g>	 :)
[17:48:45] * YuviPanda  is happy all these are getting documented

[17:48:46] <sumanah>	 So maybe what people in the Sunday meeting were getting at, when one of them stressed that the page needs to have a section on CDN, is "edge caching" more than "CDN"
[17:49:01] <sumanah>	 (YuviPanda: did you see Bryan
[17:49:10] <sumanah>	 Bryan's image thumbnailing caching email?)
[17:49:15] <YuviPanda>	 no, not yet.
[17:49:19] <YuviPanda>	 been behind on email.
[17:49:19] <greg-g>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Thumbnail-stack.svg
[17:49:29] <YuviPanda>	 reading through analytics-l now
[17:49:36] <greg-g>	 sumanah: yeah, edge caching is a good term for what we do.
[17:50:47] <sumanah>	 greg-g: ok. So, I need to improve https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Performance_guidelines#Caching_layers for sure. Would it be appropriate to say that one term for some of our "frontend" Varnishes is "edge caching" and that, since we do aim to have them in lots of physical places, it is sort of useful to think of it as a CDN?
[17:51:08] <sumanah>	 paravoid: ^ (pursuant to your point on Sunday)
[17:53:02] <greg-g>	 suuure? I'd just use the standard terminology opsen use because I trust their usage: We have basically 1 real DC where data lives, we also have 2 caching centers (ULSFO/ESAMS) to get cached content closer to users. Soon we'll have a second real DC (texas) but that won't dramatically change the landscape yet.
[17:53:08] <sumanah>	 Also, is this ONLY the "frontend" Varnishes? (I dislike the name collision here, and have taken to calling them "frontline" btw, but can stop if that is annoying)
[17:54:11] * sumanah  waits to hear from opsen about what the standard term is. 

[17:57:44] <andre__>	 REMINDER: IRC Office Hour on Phabricator starts in #wikimedia-office in ~5min
[17:59:10] <^d>	 andre__: I had the time way off...I thought it was in ~2hr
[17:59:29] <andre__>	 ^d: hmm. maybe confusion between UTC and CEST :-/
[17:59:48] <^d>	 Perhaps? Little bird told me yesterday it was 1pm PDT.
[18:00:02] <^d>	 Well, "1pm"
[18:00:09] <^d>	 Maybe they meant 1pm ADT?
[18:00:11] <^d>	 :p
[18:00:27] <^d>	 Timezones suck.
[18:00:28] <^d>	 :)
[18:02:56] <Trminator>	 ^d: well, 0100Z would be a short, definite time value ;)
[18:29:28] <sumanah>	 hi mglaser - thought you might like https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Performance_profiling_for_Wikimedia_code
[18:30:22] <mglaser>	 sumanah, sry am just in a call
[18:30:56] <sumanah>	 no prob
[18:31:47] <mglaser>	 will  look at the link, though, souunds interesting
[19:38:42] <twkozlowski>	 James_F|Away: any plans on merging https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/133301/ soon?
[19:41:56] <twkozlowski>	 StevenW: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-ambassadors/2014-May/000703.html
[19:42:06] <twkozlowski>	 StevenW: Did you really mean Special:Redirect?
[19:42:55] <twkozlowski>	 StevenW: I saw the patch, but didn't think it important enough to add to Tech News
[19:43:07] <twkozlowski>	 StevenW: But do feel free to add it if you think it should be reported
[20:28:25] <StevenW>	 twkozlowski: I mean Special:Redirect in that it gives you the reverse (user_id to username) and thus is another reason the data is public.
[20:28:37] <StevenW>	 You don't need to db access to translate between the two. 
[20:41:35] <TBloemink>	 hmn
[20:47:23] <^d>	 Speaking of preferences, we should finish ripping out those 15+ checkboxes for search.
[20:47:27] * ^d  goes and pokes that patch

[20:51:25] <sumanah>	 btw, for people who want to understand why I'm writing https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Performance_guidelines , or bikeshed it :) , or talk about the security guidelines or architecture guidelines, join me in #wikimedia-office in 10 min
[21:01:40] <sumanah>	 btw, for people who want to understand why I'm writing https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Performance_guidelines , or bikeshed it :) , or talk about the security guidelines or architecture guidelines, join me in #wikimedia-office now