[05:15:40] [[Tech]]; André437; /* Local variables in page or template */; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=7887075&oldid=7880030&rcid=5119050 [05:22:09] Wikimedia, y u no load properly? [10:01:23] andre__: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-l/2014-March/042664.html [13:21:11] Nemo_bis: not that I'm aware of any changes and there's nothing in the mod queue. At least I didn't change anything :) [13:22:29] ok [14:03:59] Nemo_bis: though, hmm, wait. Something *is* fishy. I received 17 bounce notifications today from Mailman for wikitech-l@. [14:05:12] Ah, all for Microsoft mail, like @outlook.com, @msn.com, @live.com etc. Guess I should file a ticket :-( [14:16:08] andre__: mails rejected as spam and the like? [14:16:37] probably the same as is happening with Yahoo. Our mail servers are increasingly blocked, it seems [14:16:42] Nemo_bis, Subscription disabled. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. [14:16:48] yeah :-/ [14:17:11] SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM: [14:17:31] host mx2.hotmail.com [65.54.188.72]: 550 Unfortunately, messages from 208.80.154.4 weren't sent. We recommend that you contact your Internet service provider. The problem is that too many unwanted messages have been sent from the following IP address above. You can also refer your provider to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors [14:18:51] Yep, worth filing separately [14:18:51] tonythomas: see how we need your work desperately! [14:19:38] Nemo_bis: we plan to start in a few days. Jeff is in his vacation [14:19:49] :) [14:20:41] Reedy: around? [14:23:06] Nemo_bis: that was due to the email servers blacklisting mails from lists.wikimedia.org ? [14:25:23] Hi there, any who can make decision for install plugin? [14:27:45] tonythomas: yes [14:29:32] nevile, what plugin? Do you mean an extension? [14:29:42] nevile, specific info welcome. [14:29:51] nevile, https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requesting_wiki_configuration_changes [14:53:57] Nemo_bis: ok. So if we could've blocked the IP's which generated spam bounces, we could've got this not to happen right ? [15:01:14] tonythomas: right [15:01:49] Nemo_bis: I dont think I have added the SPAM handling in the proposal [15:09:32] tonythomas: not sure what you mean [15:10:19] our IP is blocked as spammer because it keeps hammering mail providers sending messages to wrong addresses (full, non-existing or otherwise bouncing) [15:11:29] Nemo_bis: oh! ok. I meant, if that case is initiated by a spammer, we need to have a mechanism to block his IP right ? [15:12:33] tonythomas: how can a spammer trigger that? [15:12:56] the problem is simply that we've been accumulating millions of email addresses and we've never cleaned them up [15:13:01] any user can trigger email's right ? [15:13:22] yes but that's rate limited [15:13:30] Nemo_bis: oh. I never knew that [15:14:13] even with a bot it's unlikely for anyone to affect the amount of bounceds [15:18:31] Nemo_bis: ok. I think the lab instance will be up in a few days, so that I can move my local test environment. [17:46:38] anyone seem quim/qgil? Does he hang out in different channels, or have a new handle? [17:48:46] @seen qgil [17:48:46] rdwrer: Last time I saw qgil they were quitting the network with reason: Ping timeout: 240 seconds N/A at 3/19/2014 5:07:37 PM (41m9s ago) [17:48:52] 41 minutes ago [17:49:15] ok. I guess it's not that late yet in SF anyway. [17:49:21] His calendar says he's in a meeting [17:49:59] I sometimes forget that my 'half the work day' is SF's 'breakfast and commute' [17:50:09] andrewbogott, he's e.g. in #mediawiki [19:48:40] anomie: I visited outreach.wikimedia.org and I was logged out; I clicked login, I entered credentials (thinking for some reason that I was on wikitech) and they were wrong; I got " You are already logged in as Nemo bis. Use the form below to log in as another user. " [19:48:53] and below, in red "Login error Incorrect password entered. Please try again. " [19:49:05] Not sure if this is expected behaviour [19:49:35] CA fail? [19:50:11] Nemo_bis: So you were probably logged in to outreach by CentralAuth, but then the actual login attempt failed due to wrong password. [19:50:56] anomie: I wasn't logged in [19:51:15] I saw Vector so there is no doubt about it [19:51:18] Nemo_bis: When it said "you are already logged in as Nemo bis", you weren't logged in on that screen? [19:51:25] on that screen I was [19:51:43] but it logged in only after I submitted the login form [19:51:50] (even though it was wrong) [19:51:58] dinner, brb [19:52:36] CA will check for a central login when you visit Special:Login; that may have succeeded while you were entering your credentials. [20:16:53] anomie: makes sense; but why not earlier and why doesn't it refresh or something when it's done [20:18:23] Nemo_bis: "why not earlier", if you somehow managed to have the don't-check-loginwiki cookie set for outreach, or clicked "log in" too quick. I thought there was JS to do something if the loginwiki-check on Special:UserLogin succeeds, but maybe not. [20:19:16] Hm. I might have been to fast, yes; can't remember [20:43:03] did y'all hear about full disclosure? [20:44:13] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7427865 [20:44:18] csteipp: ^ [20:45:42] sumanah: hey, mazel tov! [20:45:50] hi jeremyb - thank you :) [20:46:08] " I don't even know how to respond to the idea that teenagers breaking into phone switches and harassing people, buying Pantera CDs on stolen credit cards, stealing ESNs from other people's phones to make calls on someone else's bill, and rm'ing Unix boxes are somehow more honorable than adults running businesses." owwww [20:46:22] jeremyb: Yeah. I was actually thinking it would be awesome if the wmf took it on. [20:46:22] jeremyb: Sadness, such sadness [20:50:40] csteipp: how do you mean? [20:51:47] anomie, Nemo_bis, for my own anecdotal evidence: I open a handful of wiki watchlists every day, clicking ~half the links at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Quiddity#Other_project_watchlists , and every day I do this, the outreach and wikimania wikis are the only ones that have a login-delay - ie. I open the link in a new tab, and always get the "Not logged in" page, and 1-2 seconds later the "Central login - You are centrally logged in [20:51:47] as ..." bubble message will appear, and then I can hit F5 to see my watchlist properly. [20:51:57] FD was very much about free knowledge, something the WMF believes in. Beyond that, it was just a mailing list (something we do a lot of), and the stated reason he shut it down was legal requests (something we do a lot of too). [20:52:30] If they were a wiki, with 100 editors/mo., I don't think there would be a question we would take them on. [20:57:53] csteipp, jeremyb, ArchiveTeam is talking with them for archival on archive.org anyway [20:59:28] quiddity: it makes sense that those two are special, because they're the only non-autologin wikis in there [21:00:06] To me it also happens on Wikisource and other sister projects, but I don't check regularly so maybe that went away [21:00:33] I don't know about 1-2 s but I doubt I was that fast clicking link and entering my credentials [21:01:49] Are there any other "non-autologin wikis"? (Ie. Are they listed somewhere, or how can you tell? I can't see anything unique in the Special:Preferences at those wikis.) [21:12:12] <^d> quiddity: If memory serves, there's an explicit list in Initialise or CommonSettings somewhere. *.wikimedia.org wikis aren't autologgedin unless whitelisted. [21:13:28] ah, ok. It might be worth adding a pointer or copy of that list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/SUL ? [21:14:04] (or wherever appropriate) [21:40:18] csteipp: well i guess i'm not opposed :) [21:40:46] csteipp: do you want to do it? [22:31:04] Betacommand: hi