[10:29:58] Good morning hashar_ [10:58:45] mglaser: Guten Tag :-D [10:59:17] mglaser: I am a bit busy right now sorry :/ But will definitely be there at 2pm [10:59:39] hashar_ Don't worry, there are no issues right now. [13:12:23] mglaser: I am back from lunch [13:13:45] hashar_ good to know. There's one thing I wasn't sure about: can I use Jenkins to build maintenance releases of older versions as well? Should be possible, right? [13:14:00] say for 1.19.12 [13:18:31] the-wub: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&hideliu=1&namespace=866&translations=noaction [13:23:40] mglaser: worth a try :-] [13:23:47] oh great [13:24:06] hashar_ I will once I applied all the patches :) [13:25:01] Krinkle: is the centralnotice being displayed to anons too? [13:25:25] Nemo_bis: Don't know, don't care. [13:25:54] the-wub: I don't think this is supposed to be edited by anonymous users? This used to be in the MediaWIki namespace right? I don't know where this namespace comes from, but I guess it was supposed to be a protected namespace, no? [13:26:05] Or at least all pages associated with a notice auto-protected. [13:26:40] it is a working translation space. none of those changes will actually be visible in the banners. they need to be approved and published by a translator admin first [13:26:47] Yes it is. Crazy. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralNoticeBanners/edit/ChangeToU2014_v1 [13:27:06] however it is still annoying there are so many junk edits [13:27:35] Are those junk edits? [13:27:46] some of them are [13:27:56] Even worse will be the junk edits on the talk page. :) This really shouldn't be for anons too. [13:28:16] How long was this up for translation before being activated? [13:28:46] I don't see anything in translators-l. [13:28:46] ask jalexander, it's his banner [13:29:20] Nothing in translation notifications either [13:29:30] No wonder the translation is so atrocious [13:29:47] ok, doing [13:31:55] well the banner kind of needs to be visible to anons, since it is a major ToU change. I wonder if it would be possible to hide the translate link from them though. [13:37:30] It doesn't need to be horrible though [13:37:32] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:CentralNotice/Calendar#ToU_amendment_banner [15:15:50] I vaguely remember someone mentioned something like "Flow will take over the purposes of ArticleFeedback v5." [15:16:02] Was it announced somewhere? [18:18:06] bd808|deploy: can you hold off on pushing changes for a few? [18:18:16] we have an issue with MobileFrontend just discovered on betalabs, we're close to af ix [20:35:32] MatmaRex: Hi! Was there any patch to SiteStats.php following the outage on Feb 23? [20:36:37] odder: yes, hoo submitted it [20:36:43] (i have no link handy) [20:36:52] Oh, I see it now [20:36:58] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/114994/ [20:37:01] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/114994 [20:37:11] odder wins [20:37:18] * Nemo_bis hands odder a candy [20:38:10] * odder refuses to take candy from strangers [20:38:59] I only take candy from strangers in questionable panel vehicles. [20:39:03] also, a pączek would be preferable since it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%85czki#P.C4.85czki_Day today [20:47:50] I already ate them all, obviously [20:48:19] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60771 should perhaps be moved out of the Security product now a patch's been committed publicly [20:48:51] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61346 same [20:49:51] odder: technically there's no release yet [20:49:57] nor an announcement :/ [20:52:20] * odder only noticed that while working on Tech News [20:52:34] on that subject, help is appreciated since Guillaume's on holiday [20:54:47] "Identification of identifiers" [20:54:55] I like how some of the patches are titled [21:53:15] James_F: Hi, working on Tech News #10 now [21:53:45] James_F: You didn't feature https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61324 ? [21:53:59] James_F: also https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50763 [21:54:17] odder: It's not as important I don't think. [21:54:27] Which one? [21:54:27] odder: If I put in everything people will read nothing. [21:54:34] 61324. [21:54:39] But 50768 too. [21:54:43] Err. -3 [21:57:47] https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tech/News/2014/10&diff=7665392&oldid=7665212 James_F [21:57:49] I initially read that sentence in a very curious way. Commas are a helpful device. :) [21:58:06] I'm wondering how to reword the first item, James_F [21:58:17] You can now make images default size => not sure what it means [21:58:49] odder: What term do you use for "default size"? [21:58:57] without a |Npx parameter I suppose? [21:59:28] Nemo_bis: Yes, for |thumb and |frameless images (which take the thumb default size), as opposed to "basic" and |frameless images (which take full size). [21:59:29] Ouch, a new saga if toolbar icons localisation begins [21:59:30] James_F: That's fine; I'm not sure what 'you can make images' means [21:59:45] (News: images in MediaWiki suck.) [21:59:58] Is it only about inserting images, or what exactly? [22:00:00] Nemo_bis: Why is it a saga? We've been doing custom icons in VE for months… [22:00:20] odder: "You can now make the size of images be the default size for images". [22:00:39] James_F: and you only have three languages, one of which is Nikerabbit's and the other purodha's? :) [22:00:46] Nemo_bis: Err. No. [22:00:56] James_F: But what does it /mean/? How do I see this as a user? [22:01:08] odder: I'll try to edit [22:01:14] James_F: oic [22:01:17] Thank you, Nemo_bis [22:01:21] Nemo_bis: Currently 27 languages defined for "bold". [22:01:58] James_F: also, thank you for adding the items so soon; hugely helpful. [22:02:04] Nemo_bis: Plus the fall-back "a", there's now ar, be, cs, da, de, en, es, eu, fi, fr, gl, he, hu, it, ka, ksh, ky, ml, nl, nn, no os, pl, pt, ru and sv. [22:02:15] Nemo_bis: With fa getting tweaked ready to go very soon. [22:03:05] odder: If you open an image's dialog you can set the size. This is not new. [22:03:23] odder: Next to these size controls is now a "make default size" button. This is new. [22:03:43] 27, ok. Just saying, it took a long time for WikiEditor and for the standard editor before that, it will also take a long time for VE. :) [22:04:06] Nemo_bis: We did all the WikiEditor ones early last year (those were easy). [22:04:10] Nothing special [22:04:23] no idea what you mean [22:04:49] Nemo_bis: It doesn't take that long to add them (it's just " 'da': 'italic-k'," being added to the icon class and the icon being made if it doesn't exist). [22:05:05] Nemo_bis: So now we want more languages which aren't already served to come forward and ask, if they want. [22:05:54] James_F: this is for all files, not only images, right? [22:06:04] odder: All media items, yes. [22:06:08] odder: But "images" is simpler. [22:06:36] Not if you want to make a video thumb the default size :-) [22:06:52] True, but videos are <<< 1% of content. [22:14:51] James_F: Ref question please? [22:16:45] matanya: Sure? [22:17:44] when adding ref's with VE it adds ref's to the insreted ref, this is not desirable in hewiki for example [22:18:05] What do you mean? [22:18:09] hewiki uses a special template to do that [22:18:55] Lots of wikis use special templates that make wikitext even worse. [22:19:11] What does hewiki use a template to do? [22:20:31] insert refs [22:20:52] What does hewiki use a template to do that makes it better than Foo? [22:21:23] RTL for example [22:21:31] localiztion [22:21:41] RTL does make entering some characters harder, it's true. [22:21:57] But VE makes RTL editing trivial… [22:22:02] not every one knows what ref means [22:22:17] only english speakers [22:22:20] Not everyone knows what {{ref}} (or whatever) means either. [22:22:29] Don't you localise the tag? [22:22:43] (Does MW do localised tags, or just magic words?) [22:23:08] it adds many things [22:23:41] e.g rtl/ltr aupport, columns [22:23:55] Columns? For references? [22:23:57] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc0ehQlHzNc [22:24:01] Do you mean for reference lists? [22:24:06] yes [22:24:14] So, have you seen the bug to replace those? [22:24:15] you can choose how many [22:24:28] no, i haven't [22:25:10] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51260 [22:25:28] Right now doesn't provide much functionality, so people use templates. [22:25:31] This is bad because: [22:25:43] a) the templates aren't shared [22:25:59] b) the templates don't work in structured systems like Parsoid or Wikidata-referencing [22:26:09] c) you can't do nice things with them in VisualEditor [22:26:34] d) people do bad things, like set a number of columns (rather than a width), so people with small or big screens are screwe [22:27:33] all those points are valid and make sense, but people don't insert ref with VE for the reasons mentioned before [22:27:49] do you want to fix that? :) [22:28:07] Yes, we're going to fix bug 51260. [22:28:15] Which then means people won't need to use the template. [22:29:12] but ref will still be inserted there? [22:29:20] Inserted where? [22:29:31] in the wiki page [22:29:37] … yes? [22:29:41] How else would it work? [22:30:21] odder: Do you really despise having a link to Bugzilla? You've deleted it four times now without comment… [22:30:27] e.g : https://he.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%9E%D7%94_%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%98%D7%99&diff=prev&oldid=15173940 [22:30:58] James_F: Yes. [22:31:14] odder: Then please don't silently edit war but explain your edits. It's a wiki. [22:31:22] {{ynet|נועם (דבול) דביר|קרב חילוני-חרדי: סינמה סיטי בי-ם, לא בשבת|4492157|25 בפברואר 2014|}} [22:31:36] isn't really friendly [22:31:40] matanya: Someone wrote wikitext in the reference box? That doesn't work very well. [22:31:54] no, that is what i'm reporting :) [22:32:03] or trying to [22:32:18] matanya: Really simple solution: don't write wikitext there, it won't work, and that's why you get a warning telling you not to write wikitext there. [22:32:21] :-) [22:32:45] it was not written using wikitext [22:32:54] it is even tagged with VE edit [22:33:21] matanya: No, the editor wrote wikitext whilst inside VE. [22:33:34] he claim not [22:33:49] Well… OK. Did he use a gadget that wrote wikitext for him? [22:34:13] Because it's almost impossible for that to happen in VisualEditor. [22:34:41] i'll need to ask [22:37:26] James_F: actually it is https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52579 [22:37:56] matanya: Oh, that? I really need to WONTFIX that bug… [22:38:07] :/ [22:38:16] may i ask why? [22:38:35] matanya: It's a CANTFIX really. [22:38:43] ok, fair enough [22:39:11] so the same would be the end of https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50281 ? [22:39:16] matanya: Cite.php is designed a certain (bad) way. {{sfn}} is a horrible horrible hack to try to re-design it, using {{#tag:ref|…}} that was a mistake that wasn't intended). [22:39:45] matanya: The long-term fix is to actually replace Cite.php, and it's on the roadmap, but not for a long time. :-( [22:39:47] yeah, is see what you mean [22:39:59] matanya: No, Trevor's actually working on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50281 right now. [22:40:06] (Did you mean another bug?) [22:40:31] no, i thought it would have the same fate, but good to know it is not [22:41:41] We WONTFIX very few bugs in VE. [22:41:50] In general, we're going to support almost everything. [22:41:56] But it may take some time to get there. [22:42:05] i will quote you on that [22:43:59] where is moriel? [23:17:13] Uhm, I've difficulties searching in the german WP. Am I alone, am I not?