[00:19:17] PiRSquared, possibly these are the pages/people you want: http://countervandalism.net/wiki/List_of_bots (found via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cleaning_up_vandalism/Tools#IRC_channels [00:19:35] yeah, I know CVN [00:19:51] but they don't run irc.wikimedia.org [00:22:43] I found a bug [00:23:40] Betacommand: file it on bugzilla? [00:23:49] never mind [00:25:11] PiRSquared, Hmm, maybe https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wm-bot (found via https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Channels#Recent_changes ) [00:25:32] list of devs in the topsection there [00:29:47] no [00:30:08] PiRSquared: nobody maintains it [00:30:22] why are you interested? [00:30:46] again for the l10n thing or something new? [00:31:14] legoktm: I didn't file this, so don't blame me for crazy idea: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60268 [00:31:32] it might break existing bots [00:32:18] it will [00:32:22] everything does [11:12:49] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ImportTranslations dos not work? [11:22:31] Steinsplitter: needs rights IIRC [11:22:39] what did you try [11:24:17] first step: importing the page via Special:import, [11:24:17] step 2: marking the page for translation [11:24:17] step 3: importing the translation. [11:24:17] ? [11:25:23] translation made where [11:26:00] on wikidata for example [11:36:26] Status: Long page loads, lack of CSS/JS due to bits overload | http://status.wikimedia.org | Technical help for Wikimedia wikis: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech | Server admin log: http://bit.ly/wikisal | Channel is logged: http://ur1.ca/edq1o | Bugs: https://bugs.wikimedia.org | Error counts: http://tinyurl.com/n3twd8k [11:36:31] whoops. [11:38:05] have we broken skins? [11:39:09] I am not getting them automatically, nor when forced with ?useskin=vector or monobook [11:39:18] see topic [11:43:11] what's http://git.wikimedia.org/tree/labs%2Ftools%2Fwikiviewstats.git [14:02:30] has something change with our webfonts this week? I see UnifrakturMaguntia doesn't work any more [14:02:48] ....what part of the interface is that used for? [14:03:14] and on which wiki site? [14:03:17] ^ sDrewth [14:04:17] andre__: enWS [14:04:26] andre__: it's used on wikisource for some special texts [14:04:36] we had a template that turned it into the gothic type [14:04:45] it also replaced some headletters previously done with mathfrak I think? [14:04:55] loading webfonts now happens via a user pref, rather than automatically [14:04:55] now it gives plain letters, but it could have been anything in the past week plus [14:05:08] so how could I see that problem? [14:05:09] that was deployed at 11:25 UTC today by ori [14:05:20] * sDrewth goes to have a look [14:05:20] (in general, this should maybe be discussed in #mediawiki-i18n instead. Not sure.) [14:05:41]

[14:05:47] lack of l10n doesn't help :) [14:05:49] it broke something, and not in our documentation [14:06:53] which URL would allow me to reproduce the problem(s)? [14:07:27] paravoid: we used to have a default for soem of these things at the WS, especially as we get multilingual texts [14:07:36] andre__: any URL using fonts? :) [14:08:09] andre__: well, closest that I can get is https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Template:Blackletter [14:08:16] Ah. I assumed the problem refers to that specific font only used on ws somewhere [14:08:36] and that is just an example, as it is no longer [14:09:05] sDrewth: I guess you have to go back to the previous system [14:09:34] or we get that preference on by default [14:09:54] it should already be on by default according to the commit [14:10:04] hmm new preference looks ugly [14:10:23] it isn't for me [14:10:37] ah, it won't be for pre-existing accounts is what you are saying? [14:10:53] no [14:11:04] preference defaults don't care about old or new [14:13:30] considering that the commit does the exact opposite of what it states, it should probably be reverted, greg-g's job though [14:14:41] bloody nuisance that it got pushed out, out of the normal update [14:16:27] Translate is broken too [14:16:43] yep, no idea what's going on, there must be some private discussion going on somewhere [14:19:19] is jrobell on bugzilla? [14:19:35] * sDrewth heads for bed, got to be up in 4 1/2 hours [14:23:59] ugh, sleep tight then [14:24:23] ok, situation clarified and people notified, now it's someone else's job [14:25:42] someone should notify a few mailing lists of the fallout [14:30:22] total network activity of the two bits caches clusters is exactly the same as 24h ago (730-750 MB/s out) [16:04:50] so... [16:04:53] someone needs to run scap [16:05:02] legoktm: you should probably poke greg-g [16:05:09] you just did! :) [16:05:22] ow, dammit! Now I need to sacrifice some chickens [16:05:53] hmm ^d is awake [16:06:12] <^d> zzzzz. [16:06:16] <^d> ;-) [16:06:20] <^d> sup? [16:06:42] ^d: someone needs to run scap, because https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal [16:06:51] has the string ' ' [16:07:10] https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/SAL <-- or.i synced, but no scap [16:07:23] <^d> ori knows better ;-) [16:09:11] <^d> Scap started. I suppose the bot will report that at some point. [16:09:20] thanks [16:10:41] I wonder why bits got overloaded though [16:10:51] less people should be fetching ULS now, not more [16:11:30] legoktm: ori mentioned in ops@ mail. Basically a lot of regeneration [16:11:34] <^d> That ^ [16:11:43] ah, ok [16:12:02] <^d> Since it wasn't part of the default css/js payload anymore, the default payload wasn't valid anymore and got purged. [16:13:04] legoktm: what's up? [16:13:16] thanks ^d [16:13:21] <^d> yw [16:13:40] greg-g: ^d is running scap for a ULS change [16:15:34] I'll try and figure out why Translate is broken in a few minutes [16:17:08] legoktm: thanks [16:17:24] for some reason, I thought I'd be able to get work done this morning :/ [16:17:26] :) [16:17:59] <^d> greg-g: I responded to the thread on ops list. [16:18:51] The SML [16:20:21] ^d: thankya [16:20:37] <^d> yw [16:28:43] Does anybody have a link to the WMF's SugarCRM instance? [16:33:14] nvm [16:50:07] civicrm :) [17:17:39] Reedy: could you take a look at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58074#c18 please? [17:20:33] ooo that's my patch [17:23:23] uuups [17:23:31] ULS appears broken on Meta too [17:25:17] legoktm: the default behaviour has changed as far as I see [17:25:37] for instance, if I want to be able to switch languages for the Translate extension, I have to enable ULS in my preferences first [17:25:46] yeah [17:25:48] This was never required before. [17:25:48] I'm working on it [17:25:55] indeed [17:25:59] I found the change that broke it [17:26:02] and now I'm trying to fix it [17:26:09] I hadn't tested this patch since like October [17:26:12] oh. Thanks :) [17:26:17] :) [17:38:23] ori: is the EventLogging for ULS still enabled? I can't find it anywhere on Ganglia [17:38:43] twkozlowski: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/108698/ [17:41:44] greg-g: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/108698/ should fix the ULS integration with the Translate extension, I'm not sure how important it is to get it deployed, andre__ had marked it as "Immediate" [17:42:14] legoktm: link tothe bug report? [17:42:20] (in the change description) [17:42:33] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46306#c89 [17:42:35] oh right [17:46:11] legoktm: so, I'm unsure what the specific issue is that this fixes, mostly, this bug is a jumbled mess now ;) [17:46:28] so right now the Translate extension uses ULS to allow the user to switch languages [17:46:58] except, its broken since ULS is no longer loaded on every page view: http://bug-attachment.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=14350 [17:47:31] so my patch just sets the proper dependencies so that ULS is properly loaded when another extension (Translate) requests it [17:47:51] worth adding to the commit message, if it was unclear ;) [17:51:19] greg-g: Please feel free to reduce priority of that bug report. I was "better safe than sorry" plus hurrying (been a busy day) [17:53:57] legoktm: like, Translate is totally broken? that seems like a new bug (just for clarity) :) [17:54:21] andre__: thanks, totally appreciate it [17:54:45] greg-g: no not totally broken, but the interface to switch languages is. if a user enables the ULS preference, it'll work fine but that's not the expected/intended behavior [17:54:54] gotcha [18:23:24] greg-g: I've prepared backports for the ULS patch: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/I05c76e478ddcfb29000471dc79ca35ce77ad59b8,n,z it just needs a deployment window and someone to do it [18:23:35] MatmaRex: and thanks for merging :D [18:23:58] legoktm: I want ori to sign off on that one [18:24:05] my pleasure [18:24:28] it was a pretty silly oversight, eh [18:24:30] one of many [18:24:41] greg-g: ok, but I don't think this one will cause any performance issues since it will just load for people who visit Special:Translate and related subpages [18:25:16] that is, except the usual 20min bits downtime upon deploy :P [18:25:25] shush you ;) [18:25:41] hehe [18:25:44] greg-g: yeah, the patch i merged won't affect anything [18:25:53] famous last words [18:25:58] other than making Translate work [18:26:18] MatmaRex: did you know that disabling ULS caused a load spike earlier today? :D [18:26:26] why does it even depends on ULS, actually? [18:26:34] legoktm: heh [18:26:34] the language selector thingy [18:26:43] sure, but why does it depends on that? [18:26:44] Lets you switch between languages easily. [18:27:00] i could translate pages perfectly well a few years ago with no ULS [18:27:05] English interface -> Translate into Polish [18:27:05] a few months ago, even [18:27:13] and with the new UI, even [18:30:16] I think it's over a year since it's used/required [19:30:47] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Translate?debug=true [19:30:54] Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'getFrequentLanguageList' of undefined [19:33:43] legoktm: bugzilla? [19:35:13] I'll file in a bit, but I don't see how this is happening [19:35:26] the issue is that ext.uls.init isn't being loaded [19:35:44] hmmm [19:35:56] are module definitions hashed and included in the cache key already? [19:36:06] except the module ext.translate.special.translate is loaded, which depends upon ext.uls.mediawiki, which depends upon ext.uls.init [19:36:13] i think not doing that used to cause these kinds of issues, but it was supposedly fixed [19:36:32] legoktm: example page? [19:36:41] [11:30:47 AM] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Translate?debug=true [19:36:41] [11:30:54 AM] Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'getFrequentLanguageList' of undefined [19:36:42] ah, duh [19:36:52] with or without debug=true [19:37:08] (somehow the first line scrolled out of my window, but i saw the second one) [19:37:18] is that deployed? [19:37:26] yes, ori deployed it [19:37:41] in ResourceLoaderFileModule::getModifiedTime I see $files = array_merge( $files, $this->getFileDependencies( $context->getSkin() ) ); [19:38:39] legoktm: wow, that looks bad [19:38:50] but I think there was a reason why that was OK. let me look [19:39:36] (https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/90541/ was the fix i was thinking about) [19:44:33] legoktm: WFM now [19:44:48] hmm, or not [19:45:00] but the translation interface loads and seems to function [19:45:03] I'm still getting it logged out https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Translate [19:45:16] MatmaRex: click on the top right "Translate to [language]" [19:45:23] none of the messages show up [19:45:33] yeah, i saw it now [19:45:53] the messages are loaded in some obtuse way [19:45:57] uls-select-language [19:45:57] heh [19:46:00] via a ResourceLoader module [19:46:00] i wouldn't be surprised if it broke [19:46:06] ext.uls.messages I believe [19:46:06] noooot really, i think [19:46:12] there's some jquery.i18n stuff [19:46:18] which does god knows what [19:46:19] those are different messages! [19:46:39] ext.uls.messages replaced hitting the API on every view [19:50:28] !technews [19:50:28] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/Latest [19:50:33] see MatmaRex [19:50:51] where? [19:50:55] !technext is https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/Next [19:50:55] You are not authorized to perform this, sorry [19:51:00] Cool. [19:51:18] nice [19:51:22] !technext is https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/Next [19:51:23] Key was added [19:51:28] @trusted [19:51:28] I trust: petan.*wikimedia/Petrb (2admin), .*@mediawiki/.* (2trusted), .*@wikipedia/.* (2trusted), .*@wikimedia/.* (2trusted), .*@wikimedia/Krinkle (2admin), [19:51:47] twkozlowski: get yourself a cloak [19:52:01] foo@invisibilitycloak/bar [19:52:09] oh, that explains. [19:52:29] !del tzatziki [19:52:32] Better have a cloak in all this snow. [19:52:35] !del twkozlowski [19:52:42] twkozlowski: you can say @whoami to confirm [19:54:16] lets try [19:54:22] !technext [19:54:22] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/Next [19:54:32] very nice [20:49:35] ori: so https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Translate is still throwing a JS error :/ [20:50:10] that's for the language engineering team to fix [20:50:53] alright then. [20:51:04] I'll file a bug for it [21:34:56] ori and lekoktm: on commosn the same problem [21:35:02] + the language thing broken [21:35:27] hey [21:35:44] Steinsplitter: the language switcher on Special:Translate? [21:36:11] yes, and the multilanguage switcher in the top of the page [21:36:57] I have no clue why it's broken, it *should* be working. I filed https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60306 for it, someone who is more familiar with the extension will need to take a look [22:58:46] MatmaRex: CSS guru [22:59:24] I understand that the WMF is considering the look and feel of Wikimedia wikis to be "trade dress" [22:59:39] Shouldn't we change the default skin of MediaWiki to be Monobook then? [23:00:06] twkozlowski: thats how it used to be [23:00:18] Vector is the new hipper, cooler skin [23:00:41] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Trademark_policy/FAQ#1.3_What_is_.22trade_dress.22.3F [23:00:50] That's scary from a third party perspective. [23:01:26] twkozlowski: there's a bug for that [23:01:41] but vector is notoriously difficult to customize [23:01:53] Yes, but it's about the uniqueness of Wikimedia wikis. [23:02:11] That's scary lawyer stuff I'm bringing up now. [23:02:41] If the look and feel of Wikimedia wikis is Vector is WMF trademark [23:02:54] twkozlowski: the skin is already released under the GNU/GPL license so its not an issue [23:02:58] wait what [23:03:04] how can Vector be trademarked? [23:03:09] then by shipping it as the default skin, we're unnecessarily jeopardize third party users [23:03:22] jeopardizing* [23:03:49] Betacommand: I'm talking trademarks, not copyrights [23:04:03] legoktm: see that FAQ [23:04:08] oh wow [23:04:10] that seems [23:04:11] bad [23:04:19] "or the Wikipedia main page" [23:04:27] twkozlowski: as i said, there's a bug about that [23:04:30] no once cared so far [23:04:35] so if I add some CSS to Common.css, it becomes trademarked? [23:04:41] MatmaRex: link plz? :D [23:04:43] twkozlowski: Im not sure that they can trademark something that is already under a license [23:04:57] Betacommand: they can trademark stuff that's in the PD [23:04:59] twkozlowski: legoktm: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51912 [23:05:11] twkozlowski: its not PD [23:05:37] so what. copyright != trademark [23:07:08] twkozlowski: the css cannot be trademarked [23:07:59] it is neither a symbol, word, or words legally registered or established by use as representing a company or product [23:08:40] The layout/visual design would fall under copyright [23:08:46] Betacommand: the look and feel can be trademarked, that's what the FAQ says. [23:08:47] not trademark [23:09:07] and Vector is the single most important part of that look and feel. [23:09:11] twkozlowski: I dont give a fuck what the FAQ says, the law is what matters [23:09:36] twkozlowski: take a look at what a trademark is defined as [23:09:39] Betacommand: the FAQ says it's the law :) [23:09:48] Nemo_bis: the FAQ is wrong [23:10:02] Betacommand: The moment you're sued, you'll change your opinion about not giving a fuck :) [23:10:26] And I'm not talking the WMF in 2014, I'm talking the WMF in 2054 [23:10:38] You never know, and that's what checks and balances are for. [23:10:42] especially if WMF hires a 1-billion $ law firm ;) [23:11:08] twkozlowski: I know trademark/copyright very very well, Im in the top 20 people on wikipedia in that matter [23:11:29] Good. I need trademark advice :) [23:12:07] Betacommand: ever heard of https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Logo/Reclaim_the_Logo :-) [23:12:18] Are you going to trademark Vector? [23:12:20] twkozlowski: a logo is a different issue [23:12:21] WTF [23:12:44] twkozlowski: a logo can easily be trademarked [23:12:51] I thought WMF was supposed to be a supporter of free software [23:12:56] No shit, Betacommand. [23:13:20] a skin/visual appearance that is shipped with a freely licensed product cannot [23:13:27] I think I felt that on my own skin already, Betacommand. [23:13:37] Nemo_bis: what's going on? [23:13:38] Betacommand: Well, I think the Foundation disagrees. [23:13:59] huh: The Wikimedia Foundation is going to have a new trademark policy. [23:14:06] yes, I know that much [23:14:22] and in the FAQ for that policy, they say that the look and fool of the wikis is their trademark. [23:14:27] twkozlowski: I can disagree that the oceans are pink and the moon is made of cheese, it doesnt make it true [23:14:29] feel, of course. [23:14:37] the consultation is up [23:14:55] Who can read all those things. [23:15:09] not sure why they want to trademark vector [23:15:11] especially when they're hidden at separate subpages. [23:15:26] someone should contact whoever the legal guy is [23:15:28] huh: You did read https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Trademark_policy/FAQ#1.3_What_is_.22trade_dress.22.3F didn't you? [23:15:32] Jamesofur|away? [23:15:48] twkozlowski: no, tl;dr. I should have read it though [23:16:02] huh: it's four lines. [23:16:12] it's a FAQ, for God's sake :) [23:16:15] FAQ is not part of the policy [23:16:20] " These FAQs are not part of the trademark policy. They are not even a legal document. But we hope that you find them helpful. :)" [23:16:31] asked doesn't mean read ^^ [23:16:33] The trade dress of any Wikimedia site is also a trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation. [23:16:43] Can they be more precise than that? [23:16:52] that's not a legally binding document [23:17:20] huh: the same can be said about the CC FAQs, but people tend to give those some authority on the licenses' interpretation :) [23:17:21] That's good enough statement of intent, I think... [23:18:40] well, I'm not a lawyer [23:19:31] twkozlowski: take a look at trademark law the wmf look is not inherently distinctive, since its an out of the box default look for mediawiki [23:19:50] some of them want to change that, be assured [23:21:24] vector is so ugly that I don't care what's done to it [23:21:30] but the whole thing is very unwiki-like [23:22:05] Betacommand: I understand that, I'm only saying the Foundation thinks otherwise. [23:22:12] Or appears to be thinking so. [23:23:47] the foundation would trademark my royal buttocks if they could, at this point [23:24:28] I'm still waiting for the shirt with all the project logos on it that I was promised ages ago [23:24:34] That's a bit harsh, your majesty. [23:24:48] and I still haven't figured out if I can legally make it myself [23:25:07] If you like WLM, you can use that. [23:25:15] You can, if you don't sell it [23:25:17] WLM? [23:25:24] Wiki Loves Monuments [23:25:41] They don't get that "Wiki is not Wikipedia" [23:25:43] but meh [23:25:52] no I want a shirt with wikimedia and the community log ad the front and all the project logos at the back [23:25:57] <^d> Wombat Locomotive Mission [23:26:12] Well put good sir. [23:26:18] <^d> Provide locomotion to wombats everywhere! [23:26:21] QueenOfFrance: how dare you want merchandise other than Wikipedia stuff? Jamesofur|away [23:26:58] QueenOfFrance: You can use the community logo for sure. [23:27:10] yeah [23:27:11] Nemo_bis was so kind as to officially oppose it being trademarked. [23:27:13] twkozlowski: what about the other logos? [23:27:40] QueenOfFrance: see current trademark policy? [23:28:01] I'm not sure, I never cared about it, and applied IAR. [23:28:02] twkozlowski: I'll be honest, I tried to understand it but got a bit discouraged and gave up :( [23:28:23] such as when I bought wikisource.pl to prevent it from being squatted. [23:28:39] Luckily the WMF promised they won't do anything to me [23:28:54] Yeah but they shouldn't have to promise [23:29:08] Bleah [23:29:15] The whole thing just stinks imo [23:29:17] Promises will hold up well in court. [23:29:28] "You may make t-shirts, desktop wallpaper, or baseball caps with Wikimedia Marks on them, though only for yourself, your friends (meaning people from whom you don't receive anything of value in return), and donors and other Chapter or Foundation supporters, so long as you are giving them away rather than selling them." [23:29:30] QueenOfFrance: maybe one of the old Wikimania t-shirts has all the logos on it [23:29:36] QueenOfFrance: that's your question answered. [23:29:56] twkozlowski: thanks [23:30:00] Go get your T-shirt boy!! [23:30:42] QueenOfFrance: I agree on vector! Let's file a bug on making monobook default again the moment the board approves this draft. :) [23:30:46] so the WMF has had the shirt of someone's back ? [23:31:12] Nemo_bis: maybe I can make a t-shirt for that too [23:31:24] https://twitter.com/twkozlowski/status/335120104876564480/photo/1 shameless promotion [23:31:34] QueenOfFrance: I promise I won't sue you for the look and feel of that one [23:31:43] QueenOfFrance: t-shirt with monobook? [23:31:52] hmm shouldn't be too hard [23:31:53] Nemo_bis: t-shirt saying vector sucks :P [23:31:57] ah sure [23:32:15] oh QueenOfFrance, if you want t-shirts just ask me in private and I can surely get some sent to you [23:32:25] abbiamo anche una marea di felpe e spillette [23:32:37] Nemo_bis: no e' che voglio fare uno specifico design [23:32:43] oh, e canotte rosa da donna se sai a chi darle [23:32:58] be', ne abbiamo con spazio a sufficienza per aggiungerci altro [23:33:14] lol [23:33:39] a seconda della dimensione di ciò che ci vuoi scrivere, un transfer può costare anche solo una ventina di centesimi [23:34:11] we have lots of stuff but we had to close the shop due to WMF, you know; so we only distribute stuff at assemblies now, a bit impractical [23:34:36] * Nemo_bis remembers begging WMF to send them money at the time of being a treasurer [23:34:46] as WMIT? [23:35:10] yep [23:35:12] wait, WMIT can't sell t-shirts? [23:35:17] of course not [23:35:21] why not? [23:35:25] because it's commercial [23:35:36] I thought WMIT was a no profit [23:35:36] commercial license on trademarks was revoked to WMIT in 2007 [23:35:42] ???? [23:35:54] ma non ti ricordi homolaicus??? [23:36:12] Nemo_bis: mai avuto a che fare con WMIT [23:39:31] homolaicus è stato un caso nazionale [23:40:37] QueenOfFrance: vedi interrogazioni parlamentari http://www.zeusnews.it/n.php?c=6399 [23:41:13] ovviamente il mitico sottosegretario se ne lavò allegramente le mani [23:41:38] ovvio [23:42:47] anyway, https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Free_knowledge_based_on_Creative_Commons_licenses#5._What_is_commercial_use.3F_.E2.80.93_Any_use.2C_that_is_primarily_directed_toward_commercial_advantage_or_private_monetary_compensation. [23:42:58] remember the dot :)I