[00:01:58] gn8 folks [02:04:12] Huh. I found an awkward behavious in [02:06:00] Different lines do NOT have the same heights [02:06:12] Which can make things look really awful at times [02:06:22] For example [02:06:26] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puck_of_Pook%27s_Hill#Original_illustrations [02:06:40] In which the last line is much bigger than the others [02:09:25] Since packed is being considered as a replacement mode for gallery, having such aesthetically ugly display is rather problematic. [02:11:36] AdamCuerden, it's dynamically sized, therefor we have no idea what that screen looks like for you... :P Also, be careful with the hyperbole, "really awful" is quite strong. [02:13:19] For the databases, do all the writes get sent to the master, and the reads get distributed to the slaves? [02:15:40] I'm afraid that, in this case, it is pretty awful [02:15:52] The last row is about 50% larger than the first two rows [02:16:06] looks fine to me [02:16:15] Hmm. BRowser? [02:16:41] firefox [02:17:02] I'll screenshot it [02:17:14] width, the images resize when you change browser width. [02:17:20] TDJACR: basically yes [02:17:22] Ay [02:17:38] http://gyazo.com/a714db4531f31bf776923097820c9263 [02:17:44] TDJACR: there are a few queries that go to master, like checking if you're blocked [02:18:18] legoktm: But all the writes go to the master? [02:18:24] yes. [02:18:43] legoktm: Interesting. If the master goes down, is the failover automatic? [02:19:08] yes [02:19:25] By which mechanism? [02:20:57] TDJACR: not sure, someone in #wikimedia-operations would know better [02:20:58] AdamCuerden, http://i.imgur.com/pdK8ARW.jpg [02:21:21] * quiddity heads out for the night. [02:21:40] Thanks :) [02:27:57] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Problematic_behaviour_in_gallery_mode_packed.png [02:29:08] Quiddity: That still has the last row much taller [02:45:45] AdamCuerden: please don't send stuff like that to wikitech-ambassadors….that's not what the list is for [04:05:07] crap, Wikitech, not wikitech-ambassadors [04:05:10] Sorry [04:51:59] AdamCuerden, I see what you mean with "much taller", but I'd still strongly suggest that "really awful" (as you wrote above) and "horrible" (as you wrote in description at commons), are quite severe hyperbole. Better to call it "imperfect" or suggest that "small improvements are possible". To use hyperbole or overemphasis like that, runs the risk of having future statements taken at less-than-face-value, because readers come to expect exag [04:51:59] geration. Know what I mean? [04:56:02] I'm aware of the issue. It will be fixed Tuesday [08:15:18] api requests of format=json&action=block&gettoken=1&user=Legosock are failing... [08:15:25] {"servedby":"mw1199","error":{"code":"notoken","info":"The token parameter must be set"}} [08:16:07] I don't see anything that would have broken that... [08:19:02] legoktm, see anything suspicious in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ApiSandbox#action=block&format=json&user=MaxSem2 ? [08:19:29] you're missing the gettoken=1 parameter? [08:19:33] hm [08:19:42] https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-core/commits/master/includes/api <-- doesn't show any related changes [08:19:51] it's missing from parameters completely [08:20:26] yeah, but where'd it go? :< [08:21:23] well, i fixed easyblock to use action=tokens for now [08:22:48] legoktm, it's related to a security change not currently in version control [08:22:55] ok [08:24:29] it was deprecated since 1.20, you know:) [08:24:42] not my userscript :P [08:24:55] and when deprecated things get removed, there usually is an announcement.... [08:26:25] do you know if the removal is intended to be temporary or will be permanent? [08:26:35] perma [08:26:58] hm, ok. do you know when it's going to get released publicly? [08:27:16] you don't read wikitech-l? [08:28:38] i didnt today [08:29:03] ok, tuesday [08:30:13] thanks [10:43:45] @techs: Is communety approval needed to enable Special:NotifyTranslators on Commons? [11:15:12] http://ee-prototype.wmflabs.org/metrics/aftv5_enabled_pages.php?wiki=enwiki not found [11:15:28] Steinsplitter: yes and i'm not so sure it's a good idea [11:16:12] :/ [14:11:29] another API question, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Data_formats tells me all parameters need to be encoded in a query string, but https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Edit tells me I need to set a application/x-www-form-urlencoded content header, which implies that I should use a request body [14:12:09] should I use a body, and if so, can I use a body for every request, or should some parameters always be part of the query string? [14:19:18] HttpWebRequest req = CreateRequest(url); [14:19:18] req.Method = "POST"; [14:19:18] req.ContentType = "application/x-www-form-urlencoded"; [14:19:18] req.ContentLength = postData.Length; [14:21:02] ah, I'll work from there [14:21:07] what language/library is that? [14:22:50] or should I just fiddle and see what works? [14:24:36] That's what AWB uses [14:25:21] ah, that's C# no? [14:27:08] that would mean I guess that posting an entity rather than a query string is ok [14:27:55] It writes a byte array [14:32:43] hrm, I think I'll just see if I can look it up [14:34:13] TIAS? [14:36:11] meh, I'll just try and find the source, rather than guessing what might work [14:43:32] (also, since I'm not 100% sure if I am doing things right in the first place, I'll never know if I'm trying to do the right thing wrong, or doing the wrong thing right) [15:25:56] well, it seems to be whatever PHP makes available from either $_POST or $_GET. That should be in the PHP documentation I suppose? [16:42:26] I got success with making everything x-www-form-urlencodedh for all my testcases, so I'll assume it will be accepted for everything [17:19:26] Well, looks like it's time to start thinking about the next tech report. [17:21:04] If anyone has anything not in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-08-28/Technology_report please send me a PM. Though I have 4 days to collect, so... =) [17:22:14] AdamCuerden: You can mention that thanks to YuviPanda|food the WLM Android app is online again [17:28:36] I'll put that into the notes. =) [17:29:26] One minor problem I have is that this Wikipedia Signpost was very late, so I have less timespan for this one [17:29:37] Probably should've held a bit back, but, eh, never mind [17:31:19] AdamCuerden: are you aware of https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=in.yuvi.signpost [17:31:20] ? [17:31:21] :) [17:32:51] Ha. No, actually, but I'll play with that after dinner =) [17:33:31] AdamCuerden: :) It even does realtime notification - i've a notification now that the signpost was published :) [17:33:38] and I can tap it and read all the articles [17:33:42] so yeay [17:34:20] Excellent =) [17:36:55] I shall certainly write that up. [17:38:07] But I should get dinner first, as the shops close shortly [17:38:12] :) [17:38:21] it's been around for a year tho [17:50:31] I have boldly made https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=API:Data_formats&diff=prev&oldid=774549 this edit based on my limited experience, but please correct it if it's wrong, I'd hate to change something for the worse, and go unnoticed [18:44:27] Okay, difficult question: Lua. How hard would it be for someone to make their first minor gadget in it? [18:44:56] Because, if the basics are easy, I'm thinking it'd be a good Signpost tutorial [18:45:19] I can check it because, while I can program, I don't know Lua yet [19:00:09] how could a Lua Module be a gadget? Is that even sensible? [19:00:36] (that's an actual question, not a judgement) [19:00:53] hello [19:00:57] no, Lua is a replacement for templates [19:01:00] you cannot make gadgets with it [19:06:53] Sorry, meant, thingie things. [19:06:57] ...Not gadgets [19:07:17] ...Today, we will be learning how to use precise wording to communicate clearly [19:07:19] but Lua isn't a real hard language to do something in. If you follow the tutorial, it's pretty fast to do something. It's also pretty different from other imperitive languages, so experience in other languages can actually hinder [19:07:36] Can you link me the Tutorial? [19:07:47] er let me see [19:09:02] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Lua/Tutorial [19:09:59] mind that Lua will do almost everything something between mildly and massively different to what you know, but to use it for what it's meant to, make templates, you probably shouldn't be using the entirety of the language anyway [19:10:53] it's object orientation is interesting, but different. It is sort of similar to JavaScript if anything, but I'm far from good enough at JavaScript or Lua to really say something about it [19:11:09] the concept is similar to JS, but a lot more 'bolted on' [19:11:12] but if you make templates in it, it's probably best to not use that at all [19:12:46] Right [19:13:12] its massively different from class based object orientation at any rate [19:13:39] I'll look it over. I doubt I'm going to get a "proper" lead story for the tech report in four days, but I can always do a tutorial on a relatively recent feature [19:17:07] I should explain. I'm trying to use the lead stories for things that drastically change how users use Wikipedia, either by being amazing new features, great improvements, or just far better ways to do something formerly difficult. [19:17:24] Examples: Lilypond support; the new galleries. [19:17:49] Wikipedia will do things related to those two things differently moving forwards. [19:18:31] VisualEditor would be another example, although, admittedly, it launched a bit early, so has a more difficult road than it should have had [19:19:20] AdamCuerden, I think that Lua is a godsend, but I don't think the general WP user, editor or reader, will notice it too much. Template writing has always be a specialist thing, and though it's far easier now, and more people could do it, it's still a very small group of people who actually do it (on en.wp not more than, say, 10 people who are really involved in it) [19:19:27] Hmm. [19:19:30] True. [19:19:43] so a whole lot of people get the fruit of their labor (which is substantial), but they probably don't even notice [19:19:50] Still, though, you could say the same for Lilypond in some ways [19:20:13] true [19:20:19] AdamCuerden: you could do one about the Gallery, though - if you haven't already? [19:20:24] Um... [19:20:30] Check the current signpost [19:20:37] aah! okay :D [19:20:38] It has over a page on the gallery [19:20:46] i got the notification on the phone, but haven't checked yet [19:20:50] Heh [19:21:07] Comments, by the way, are of the "This is amazing" variety [19:24:39] Literally, actually. "Wow, the new gallery is amazing! I quite like it. — -dainomite 16:55, 31 August 2013 (UTC)" [19:25:33] I'm really tempted to copy-paste the signpost article into [[Help:Gallery]] [19:25:41] then lightly copyedit [19:25:46] ANYWAY, I get off-topic [19:26:31] Basically, I can't expect new code of that note every week, so what I thought I'd do is basic tutorials any week that doesn't have something. [19:26:57] Since Wikipedia is eclectic, I'd like said tutorials to be eclectic [19:27:35] Now, if you have a better topic to explain to users, related to recent features or code, I'd be happy to consider it. [19:27:37] Hey, James [19:28:55] * YuviPanda goes to see this signpost [19:30:42] I wonder, is the parser actually available through the API (or should it?) [19:32:19] MartijnH: action=parse [19:32:43] Hmm. Actually... I wonder if I'm going for tutorials the wrong way. Should I write them, or should I do it as a guest spot? [19:32:58] does that matter? [19:33:13] if you can convince someone else to do them, then guest spot. else you write them? :P [19:33:18] Well, it makes a difference to my workload =P [19:33:26] nice YuviPanda [19:33:35] Aye. I know I'm going to likely be the one to write the Lilypond tutorial [19:35:20] But when I'm vague on what to write, asking for submissions probably is a good idea [19:35:44] Lilypond is a little too recently covered to bring up this week =) [19:36:07] :D [19:36:15] AdamCuerden: you could ask anomie aboue lua stuff perhaps [19:36:17] *about [19:37:02] it's not on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Main_page YuviPanda, is that badly maintained, or is that out of the scope of the page? I wouldn't mind adding things to it but (see my questions) I'm not quite knowlegeble enough to edit something authoritive like that [19:38:01] MartijnH: it's there, just well-hidden. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Parsing_wikitext [19:38:33] ah, "expanding templates and rendering" [19:38:43] I looked for "pars.*" [19:39:26] yeah, i'm fixing it right now [19:39:32] it's "Parsing wikitext and expanding templates" now :) [19:39:41] :) [19:40:22] while you're here, could you check if the edit I made here: https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=API:Data_formats&diff=prev&oldid=774549 is actually right? [19:41:00] it is what I see from testing and reading source, but I could have easily have missed something, and I don't want to make a right source wrong [19:41:18] MartijnH: yeah, sounds fine [19:41:22] (and with my PHP skills, reading source is destinctly "meh") [19:41:34] Will do. =) [19:46:04] Erg, but, for the moment, I'd best nap a bit [19:46:41] I don't know how well-known it is, but I'm mildly disabled. If I do a lot of things over a short period of time, I'm likely to crash for a bit while I recover. [19:46:58] And between Wikimania nd the Edinburgh Fringe, I've done that [19:48:25] It's been getting a lot better - a week or so of not getting that much done, as opposed to whole months of getting almost nothing. [19:52:47] AdamCuerden: have a good nap :D [19:54:40] just don't nap for week or so ;) [20:19:29] * anomie comes back to the computer, looks at the ping, sees no current questions, goes back to reading a book (after checking Special:Watchlist, anyway) [20:29:31] Anyone know of a JS script that lets people post a comment to a talk page with just a element on the page? [20:34:20] On Wikipedia? [21:06:48] We don't get {{#urldecode}}? [21:06:54] We can only encode? [21:07:52] why would you want that? [21:08:48] MartijnH: Well, I'm trying to use Lua's regex functionality, but of course, matching stuff like |s in the input string is very difficult within {{#invoke}} [21:09:14] So I thought it would be easiest (if a little hacky) to url encode it, run the regexes, then decode it again. [21:09:25] I guess the solution is to do it all in Lua. [21:11:03] you could also write a manual escape function, but that's probably ugly too [22:00:34] okay the problems i'm having with the resourceloader are ridiculous :( [22:02:05] Which are? [23:06:41] How often do deleted edits on Wikipedia actually get deleted, if ever? I've never heard of a db purge, but I'm curious as some of the deletionists have implied that Wikipedia is going to run out of space and the world if going to end if they don't delete everything they can. [23:07:23] * Technical_13 may be slightly exaggerated, due to his anxiety about having to have all of these RfCs... [23:10:53] Technical_13: never, apart from some old edits from 2003 and 2004 that disappeared because the early software sucked [23:11:39] That's what I thought. Reverting back and forth actually uses more bits than it saves. [23:12:21] a few kilobytes don't matter when you're already storing terabytes of data [23:12:59] Not up to petabytes yet? xD [23:13:02] * MatmaRex pulled that number out of his ass, but an estimate of a few hundred gigabytes or a few terabytes is somewhat sane [23:13:23] Reedy would know how large the databases actually are [23:13:26] Ewww.. nasty dirty number! [23:15:03] Deleting anything saves no space [23:15:47] I suspect there's cases where stuff REALLY has to be physically deleted (indecent illegal images. text that can't stay just as oversighted) [23:16:07] But they're far and few between. Images probably being slightly common [23:16:23] But yeah, deleting and restoring uses "more" data with log entries etc [23:17:09] "Space saving" comes under "don't worry about the preformance" [23:18:05] enwiki is 729GB according to the master [23:18:13] That doesn't include external storage [23:19:36] http://ganglia.wikimedia.org/latest/?r=hour&cs=&ce=&m=cpu_report&s=by+name&c=MySQL+eqiad&h=db1056.eqiad.wmnet&host_regex=&max_graphs=0&tab=m&vn=&sh=1&z=small&hc=4 [23:19:50] The enwiki master isn't even using a third of its storage space [23:26:14] Wow. Interesting fact! [23:36:17] External storage... [23:37:19] 3414GB I think [23:40:00] My university is running a system with 4TB [23:40:04] Atm [23:40:12] lolwut [23:40:20] For what? [23:41:28] It's hosting a site for Verizon and manages most of the connections in a 80-100 mile radius. [23:42:09] I've got a 4TB drive just for games [23:42:18] Over 1TB on games from steam alone [23:42:48] lol [23:43:26] And I've got a device with nearly 11TB of useable storage [23:44:27] I'm pretty sure it was 4TB. [23:45:17] It's 8 500GB raid drives iirc [23:46:00] I think we have over 30TB of "uploads" [23:46:53] ~20M files on commons atm [23:52:15] Reedy: and you probably play 3 of those steam games... [23:52:50] depends what you mean by "play" [23:52:58] Obviously, I can't play 3 simultaneously [23:55:40] Reedy: you clearly need more displays [23:56:26] I've got 3 x 24" displays... [23:56:44] + my laptop.. 1 spare 22" in the garage. My other "spare" 22" is at my dads work [23:57:00] i've been happy with the 5 linux steam games i grabbed during the summer sale. brutal legend, legend of grimrock, proteus, spirits, and superbrothers sword and sworcery. plus TF2 and osmos, gives me 7 games total! [23:59:50] * quiddity kills matma, and the conversation :/