[00:00:01] Effect. [00:00:22] Lag between servers is usually pretty minimal. [00:01:14] Er, does anyone know why we use bugzilla? [00:01:30] Because it works pretty well. [00:01:42] And it's what... I'm not sure who installed it. [00:01:44] I think Brion. [00:01:45] In 2004. [00:01:50] Its pretty confusing for someone who hasnt worked with it [00:02:14] what isn't if it's new [00:02:15] I always think it works pretty well, but I'm used to it. [00:02:46] I'm kindof new with it, and the way it works is kindof terrifying to me [00:02:50] bugzilla was a big improvement over sourceforge's old shitty bug tracker :) [00:02:56] brion: Indeed! [00:03:43] Bugzilla relays e-mail reliably and I think it has one of the best inline quoting features around. [00:03:53] Minus the weird line wrapping since the last upgrade. [00:04:36] Elsie: Er, I assume the block stuck. [00:04:42] Bugzilla scales better than other issue tracking systems also when you have 1000s of issues tracked over years. [00:04:47] legoktm: Is it still active? [00:04:56] You can look it up in the API or in Special:BlockList or something. [00:04:57] Wouldnt it be much better, if we had a reporting system integrated to WMF? [00:05:12] I can't remember where or when or why, but there was something recently about blocks being logged, but not active. [00:05:23] tos: such as? [00:05:25] tos: There's an open bug (or three) about that. :-) [00:05:28] Yes, it's listed in Special:BlockList [00:05:31] Okay. [00:05:36] Is the activity ongoing? [00:05:48] Or just the single edit? [00:05:58] I've lost the IP. [00:06:13] It was just that one edit [00:06:15] Oh, it was a username. [00:06:21] Okay. [00:06:24] So probably lag of some kind. [00:06:28] chrismcmahon, I meant to make something for handling bugs under mediawiki [00:06:28] ok [00:06:38] You can check the block code to see if it requires master. [00:06:52] But... I dunno. It'd only be interesting if it kept happening. ;-) [00:07:03] Blocked never really means blocked. [00:07:16] How hard would something like that be? [00:07:35] Depends how shitty you want it to be. :-) [00:07:45] You can file bugs as wiki pages right now. [00:07:52] And there's an associated talk page for each. [00:08:20] And user auth! And per-page access controls! [00:08:32] tos: before you set off down that path, make sure you are very familiar with Bugzilla itself, Mingle from Thoughtworks, Trello from Fog Creek, and especially Jira+Greenhopper. Those are probably the least crummy issue trackers out there right now. [00:09:13] tos: I just looked up your nick. Now I get it. [00:09:14] tos: you'll also need something to mark some bugs as private/security [00:09:22] which is why wiki will be hard [00:09:27] True. [00:09:32] unless you want to keep another bugtracker just for those [00:09:35] You could have a Security namespace. [00:09:39] and we kind of have enough trackers [00:09:50] Per-namespace restrictions are fairly robust, maybe. [00:09:52] chrismcmahon, I am not competent enough to try making one. Just suggesting one [00:09:59] Elsie, What do you get? [00:10:05] toe --> TheOriginalSoni [00:10:14] I've seen you around the wiki lately. [00:10:15] tos * [00:10:18] Heh, autocorrect. [00:10:18] tos: you might want to contact andre__ the bugzilla guy [00:10:30] tos: You should look at the open bugs about this. [00:10:37] There's already been thought put into what you're talking about. [00:13:45] Elsie, I hope you didnt notice me for the chaos I was causing. [00:14:12] I can't remember which chaos. [00:14:23] Oh, it was about EdwardsBot, I think. [00:14:54] tos: You were going to fix up EdwardsBot's handling of redirects, I think. :-) [00:15:30] I suggested fixing that. I am not competent enough to fix that yet. Still got to learn a few things before I try it [00:17:49] Does anyone know if its possible to disable Echo's userpage link pings for certain pages? [00:18:53] I doubt it. [00:18:57] kaldari would know, but he just quit. [00:19:01] bsitu might know. [00:19:27] Its pretty confusing for someone who hasnt worked with it and the best with its features as well [00:20:26] (apart from being in perl) [00:20:42] Elsie, Because I just (a few mins ago) realised WP:SPI should be excluded from Echo pings [00:21:07] tos: it's not possible ( not implemented ) at this moment, but it could be done [00:21:23] There may be an open bug about it. [00:21:25] Hi bsitu. [00:21:39] Elsie: hi [00:21:41] bsitu, What should I do to get it done? [00:21:49] tos: file a bug [00:21:55] In Bugzilla! [00:21:58] https://bugs.wikimedia.org [00:22:14] tos: okay, I will cc this to the design team [00:22:38] Elsie: what number is it? [00:22:59] No idea. I haven't looked. I just think there might be. [00:23:04] p858snake|l, Its still confusing enough to discourage the non-technical folk from trying it [00:23:04] I think blacklisting by user is already possible, right? [00:23:12] tos: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27852 BTW. [00:23:17] tos: That can be a feature. ;-) [00:23:22] Some people have stupid things to say. [00:23:48] tos: then they would hate most of the compeitor trackers would have used... [00:24:00] bsitu: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50393 maybe. [00:24:01] [05:17:49 PM] Does anyone know if its possible to disable Echo's userpage link pings for certain pages? <-- Nope, not possible yet. You can use {{noping}} though, which the AIV templates now use. [00:24:28] What's the request again... per-page blacklisting for Echo pings, right? [00:24:33] Yes. [00:24:41] I think that's the relevant bug, then. [00:24:46] legoktm, I know noping is possible. But not everyone remembers or knows to use it. [00:24:50] Though it's kind of per-revision. [00:24:53] Hmm. [00:25:03] Elsie, Per page would also imply all subpages, right? [00:25:10] No. [00:25:21] I mean, that might be an option, but certainly not an implication. [00:25:26] There should be a MediaWiki:echo-blacklist, where you can add regexes to match page titles which get exempted [00:25:29] Not in the context of MediaWiki. [00:25:32] er, echo-title-blacklist [00:25:36] or something. [00:25:38] legoktm: That seems easy enough to implement. [00:25:48] So do it! [00:25:56] I guess it'd be similar to page protection. [00:26:07] Where there's a blacklist plus per-page options. [00:26:17] What we need is a way to log page property changes. [00:26:25] Right now we only have __MAGIC WORDS__ using edits. [00:26:43] Or changing {{DEFAULTSORT:}} now with VE. [00:26:59] But that's all revision-based... [00:30:03] gn8 folks [00:30:35] Do I take it that I dont have to file a bug on that myself, Elsie and legoktm? Because I'll really prefer not to, considering how uncomfortable I am with bugzilla [00:32:01] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50628 [00:34:12] tos ^ [00:40:21] Sorry, I was away with baby. [00:41:27] MediaWiki:Echo-blacklist was suppose to handle blacklisting SPI and AN* and such. [00:42:01] tos: You never remember anything like your first time! just get in there and file bugs (you can't break anything... too badly...) [00:42:15] I was opposed to this however. (Check my Bugzilla tickets as one of them is for that issue). [00:43:00] http://enwp.org/User:Technical_13/Bugzilla [00:50:43] tos: if you file a bug, let me know and I'll check it for you and vonfirm it. [00:50:55] *confirm [00:51:28] Technical_13, Elsie filed 50628 for one of the problems I had [00:59:37] 47496#c5 [01:06:09] Added a see also to your new bug tos.. are you on the cc list? [01:06:29] Yes [01:12:23] 47946 * [01:12:31] Oh, he split. [01:12:34] Well, just as well. [01:21:39] I'm here Elsie [01:22:53] 47946#c5 to be precise Elsie and I've tagged ot in your new bug as a see also. [01:25:42] T13: Yes, I saw. [01:26:26] http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/dump/%23wikimedia-tech.htm [01:26:26] T13: Invalid arguments [01:28:05] #21 on the most active in this channel table... [01:28:47] Petan has surely already called it a day, how do I get one of those tables for my channel? [12:56:32] This bot is running http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WM-Bot version wikimedia bot v. 1.10.8.15 source code licensed under GPL and located at https://github.com/benapetr/wikimedia-bot [12:56:35] yay.. [13:11:46] @replag all [13:11:46] Technical_13: [s1] db1056: 0s, db1043: 0s, db1049: 0s, db1050: 0s, db1051: 0s, db1052: 0s; [s2] db1034: 0s, db1002: 0s, db1009: 0s, db1018: 0s; [s3] db1019: 0s, db1003: 0s, db1010: 0s, db1035: 0s [13:11:46] Technical_13: [s4] db1059: 0s, db1004: 0s, db1011: 0s, db1042: 0s; [s5] db1058: 0s, db1005: 0s, db1026: 0s, db1021: 0s; [s6] db1006: 0s, db1022: 0s, db1027: 0s, db1040: 0s; [s7] db1041: 0s, db1007: 0s, db1024: 0s, db1028: 0s [13:12:01] @list [13:12:02] so uh, how many bots are sitting here? [13:12:07] three? four? [13:12:56] <^d> Something like that. We really should +v all bots so its easier to tell. [13:12:56] snitch, AntiSpamMeta, dbbot-wm, wm-bot (bugged) [13:12:58] morebots a bot? [13:12:58] I am a logbot running on wikitech-static. [13:12:58] Messages are logged to wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Server_Admin_Log. [13:12:58] To log a message, type !log . [13:13:03] yep.. [13:13:04] five bots. [13:13:04] that i count so far. [13:13:49] ^d is a bot too I think... [13:14:36] <^d> Probably, jury's still out. [13:17:02] :p [13:19:55] morebots a bot? nor would I really class AntiSpamMeta a bot in our common sense of what we call irc bots [13:35:45] p858snake|l: having bot in the nick does not a bot make... [13:35:59] I am a bot! [13:36:09] but its a extremely big hint [15:01:37] andre__: was there some general cleanup after the "Interface" component was renamed? it used to contain all sorts of bugs [15:02:38] Nemo_bis, MatmaRex cleaned up a little bit, if I remember correctly. We had a bugday for it [15:03:30] nice :) [15:03:40] I must have missed the connection to the rename [15:04:51] hm, did i? [15:06:48] "The Bug Day's scope was MatmaRex's idea." https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Triage/20130402 [15:07:45] well yeah, i did suggest that [15:07:58] but i think i ended up not participating in it as much as i'd wanted to [15:33:14] Elsie: is AFTv5 dead or just hiding very well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paolo_Borsellino [15:35:34] sigh, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5Watchlist redirects to the unfiltered feed of all feedback, so not even watchlisting helps [15:37:17] Nemo_bis: there's a bug for that [15:38:23] MatmaRex: probably it's survival instinct, if well hidden it won't be removed [15:38:25] or maybe not. [15:38:47] :) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:ArticleFeedbackv5/Justin_Bieber#04fe018d376af77986f090b11c278532 [15:38:56] can't find it [15:41:56] interesting, I can't flag feedback in any way, only say it's useful or resolved https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:ArticleFeedbackv5/Aide:R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rence_n%C3%A9cessaire/04faf13bb19913ccf17190b11c2d680e [15:42:54] hm, or the Italian translation is just crap [15:43:49] no, the English source is [15:43:52] sigh [15:49:47] I wonder what feedback is hiding behind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bug_reports_and_feature_requests [15:51:29] mysterious peak http://stats.grok.se/en/latest90/Wikipedia:Feedback_guidelines [15:54:45] Nemo_bis: probably due to dewiki poll about using AFv5 earlier this month [15:56:28] chrismcmahon: doesn't match http://stats.grok.se/de/latest/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/Artikel-Feedback [15:56:58] perhaps someone added the tool to some particularly popular pages and was then reverted [16:16:33] hello Svick [16:16:41] apergos: hello [16:16:46] no parentxxyy today [16:17:10] right [16:17:11] I see your first commit is in [16:17:28] a makefile even if crappy would be nice in the next few days [16:17:43] it doesn't have to be nice, it just has to let me make it work on my platform [16:17:55] (I don't have ms visualanything) [16:18:02] yeah, i had a bit of trouble (i accidentally commited to master first), but that's solved now [16:18:09] saw that, no worries [16:18:49] ok, i will create the makefile when the code actually does something useful [16:18:53] sure [16:19:29] any new thoughts on the email threads? [16:20:47] yeah, i'm writing a response right now (but it's pretty much just "we really can't directly use XML for this") [16:21:23] as long as you explain (even though the explanation may feel obvious to you) why that is, I think it's fine [16:21:57] right [16:22:14] anything else? [16:22:29] I got nothing [16:22:36] how about you? questions/comments/needs? [16:23:16] nope, nothing right now [16:23:39] ok. in that case, see you here tomorrow, and on the email lists [16:24:09] you were right about keeping a copy of the old format of course [16:24:21] there's just no way that can be done in a reasonable period of time [16:25:03] yeah, but i don't like that that means the whole dump process won't be much faster [16:25:23] that's what I mean [16:25:23] unless we do something like: incremental dump each week, XML dump each month [16:25:39] it's not feasible to generate a copy in the old format [16:26:01] haivng a program that will write an uncompressed XML output stream is a much better solution [16:26:15] yeah [16:26:22] people can use that on smaller files if they really want the xml format saved (they can pipe it to the compression of their choice) [16:27:11] we can revisit supplying old format dups for download at periodic intervls, later.... see how everything plays out [16:27:42] so, good call. anyways, happy coding [16:27:58] ok, thanks [16:28:01] see you [17:37:03] andre__: now that I'm no longer in E2, can you remove me from the default assignment for those extensions in bugzilla? [17:38:03] kaldari, CentralNotice, Echo, PageCuration, Thanks, WikiLove ? [17:38:22] Leave me on WikiLove, that's my person baby :) [17:38:27] personal baby [17:38:43] someone to hear your prayers, someone who cares [17:38:44] but remove me from the others [17:39:19] reach out, touch core :) [17:39:35] heh [17:41:35] kaldari, alright, done [17:41:59] andre__: thanks! [17:42:02] np [19:36:29] @trusted [19:36:29] I trust: petan.*wikimedia/Petrb (2admin), .*@mediawiki/.* (2trusted), .*@wikipedia/.* (2trusted), .*@wikimedia/.* (2trusted), .*@wikimedia/Krinkle (2admin), [20:06:22] {{Technical_13}}: heh. [20:06:45] why are all those weird characters even allowed in nicknames [20:06:52] * MatmaRex glares at ^d [20:07:27] <^d> :) [20:09:01] <{{Technical_13}}> I'm a template... I do the same thing in many places... [20:14:21] dude, that's deep. [20:28:28] <{{Technical_13}}> MatmaRex: That's just how I'm transcluded. [20:29:15] <^d> Jokes about templates are a sadistic kind of joke. [20:30:08] <{{Technical_13}}> Maybe I need to be substituted? [20:30:22] s/jokes/about// [20:30:52] s/jokes about//** [20:31:03] <^d> My point ;-) [20:32:07] <{{Technical_13}}> You're a sick and twisted bunch... guess I fit in well enough... [20:32:28] yep join the crowd [20:33:15] <^d> MediaWiki: Sick and twisted. [20:37:34] [[Tech]]; MF-Warburg; /* Indefinitely blocked IPs */; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=5629560&oldid=5627993&rcid=4346581 [20:40:32] ^d: it seems fundraising is running new banners, be sure to send them your headline as suggestion [21:15:34] Nemo_bis: they gotta get US$50.1 million somehow [22:23:18] is there anyone to whom I can talk about some issues with Echo ? [22:23:32] <{{Technical_13}}> Sure. [22:25:03] when I use the 'patrol' function, people are notified that I have 'patrolled' their page. This is rather pointless. [22:25:04] And [22:25:21] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DragonflySixtyseven&diff=prev&oldid=562746210 [22:25:26] complaints have started [22:25:52] <{{Technical_13}}> There is an option for them to turn those off. [22:26:18] Where, how [22:27:12] <{{Technical_13}}> Preferences → notifications → notify me ... reviewed [22:27:16] <{{Technical_13}}> Iirc. [22:30:55] is there any way to stop the notifications frmo being given? [22:35:53] nope [22:36:04] apart from not patrolling user pages :) [22:36:12] why is even possible to do that, actually? it sounds silly [22:37:37] many user pages are spam [22:37:49] <{{Technical_13}}> Yes.. there is a way I believe. [22:39:09] <{{Technical_13}}> I'm not 100% sure, but I think if you add your name to the echo-blacklist they won't send.. but nothing else would either if I am right. [22:39:52] wasn;t that just for talk page notifications? [22:40:18] <{{Technical_13}}> Not 100% sure of that. [22:40:29] i have no idea tbh [22:52:54] <{{Technical_13}}> Dragonfly6-7: ^^^ did you see above? [22:53:16] ah, sorry [22:53:19] I was outside [22:53:20] <{{Technical_13}}> Worth a shot if you care that much. [22:54:12] MatmaRex - you mean, why is it possible to patrol userpages? Answer - spam, defamation, children who tell the world "I AM TEN YEARS OLD, HERE IS MY FULL NAME, HERE IS MY SCHOOL NAME, HERE IS MY PHONE NUMBER BUT PLEASE DO NOT CALL AFTER MY BEDTIME" [22:54:37] MatmaRex - you should read my deletion log some time [22:54:54] <{{Technical_13}}> LOL [22:55:30] <{{Technical_13}}> Dragonfly6-7: to be honest, I like seeing when you patrol be pages... [22:55:41] heh [22:56:06] <{{Technical_13}}> Lets me know MediaWiki is still working and didn't blow up.. [22:56:11] so people on en.wp, like, actively patrol user pages? [22:56:30] i think the general consensus at pl.wp is "anything goes as long as it's legal" [23:11:14] MatmaRex - I do. [23:11:44] .... you like seeing when I patrol "be pages" what what? [23:12:12] MatmaRex - *I* actrively patrol userpages, and there is a lot of shit that needs to be removed from there. [23:12:55] hm. [23:13:13] <{{Technical_13}}> MatmaRex: I wish that I could thank reviewers for reviewing my creations.. [23:13:24] <{{Technical_13}}> Can that be added to echo? [23:13:35] {{Technical_13}} - explain what you meant by "patrol be pages", please [23:14:01] {{Technical_13}}: i'm not sure if you're serious. :P [23:14:30] <{{Technical_13}}> I'm so serious I'm putting in a ticket tomorrow. [23:14:35] <{{Technical_13}}> :) [23:15:32] <{{Technical_13}}> Dragonfly6-7: typo for "patrol my pages" [23:15:38] Good enough. [23:17:26] <{{Technical_13}}> MatmaRex: npp are underappreciated in my opinion and having a small way to thank them seems like it would be good thing.. [23:53:56] Nemo_bis: Probably just abandoned.