[00:31:39] what is going on? if a bot is given a botbit, why does it show up in the recent changes? [00:33:08] does anyone know? [00:33:33] Romaine: b/c it didn't have bot=1 set when calling the API [00:33:55] ? [00:34:10] i.e. its programmer's fault [00:34:50] is there a way to solve it? [00:36:56] Romaine: yeah [00:37:06] fix the bot's API call [00:37:17] we can't fix that [00:37:25] it concerns: https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speciaal%3ALogboeken&type=rights&user=&page=User%3ATranslation_Notification_Bot&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&uselang=en [00:37:26] you can't recode the bot? [00:37:31] oh [00:37:38] Translation Notification Bot is part of the Translate extension [00:37:44] I know [00:37:49] and it's not intneded to be marked as "bot" AFAIK [00:38:08] come please tell that to some noxious people on nl-wiki [00:38:11] then it should show in recent changes [00:39:37] the situation is that some users do not like that a bot is doing 6 edits at the same time and come up with the bot policy that this isn't allowed [00:39:43] the blocked the bot [00:40:08] they wanted to have the bot a botbit to not show up in RC etc [00:40:28] well, the bot can't be blocked [00:40:31] b/c it isn't a true bot [00:40:36] it's a pseudo-bot like FuzzyBot [00:40:44] they did blocked it and the bot stopped working [00:44:09] Jasper_Deng: looks like a dev will need to step in [00:44:23] either patch the extension, or trout the users [00:44:34] There must be a way to disable it [00:45:14] I don't mind trouting these users, I did myself as well :p [00:46:16] Why trout the users when you can just make it ignore blocks? [00:46:32] I would like that! that would be funny :p [00:46:34] (That'd be my preferred solution anyway.) [00:46:43] Krenair: ? [00:46:54] those users got confused then [00:47:03] Krenair: I can't see how you would even come to that solution [00:47:24] It's part of an extension, not a true bot. [00:48:01] p858snake|l: prevents idiot users from breaking things [00:48:16] there has been a long history of devs stepping in to prevent that [00:48:21] just ask domas [00:48:29] What did domas stop people from breaking? [00:48:34] * Jasper_Deng hates the translate extension anyways [00:48:39] Betacommand: And blocking it has broken things how? [00:48:44] Krenair: back in the day, quite a bit [00:48:59] p858snake|l: it stops the extension from working [00:49:40] Betacommand: Then thats a flaw with the extension, and afaik, those notices are only "There is new stuff for you to translate notices" and that shouldn't break it [03:50:36] legoktm: so the Translation notification bot can now be handled as normal bot? [03:50:59] since when? [03:51:18] https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Meta_talk:Babylon&diff=5531726&oldid=5531725 [03:53:28] Romaine: oh, his change will first have to get merged [03:53:48] and then deployed [03:53:49] how long does that take? [03:53:51] so not right now [03:53:56] * Jasper_Deng doesn't know for that kind of change [03:55:10] what dependencies are there? [03:55:44] idk [03:55:50] * Jasper_Deng isn't familiar with the code of this extension [03:55:54] Romaine: Someone has to approve the changeset, then it has to wait till the next deployment cycle [03:55:57] ^^ [03:56:21] deployment is every week right? [03:56:23] If we're lucky it might get deployed this week, otherwise hopefully it'll be next week [03:59:10] I hope this will be solved soon, communities are not patient, if a user doesn 10 edits a minut no problem, but a bot doing 10 edits in a minute, it is like the devil [04:02:47] What username does the Devil use? [04:03:14] depends of the point of view :) [05:33:54] Susan: you made such a fuss out of nothing :) [05:34:13] Where? [05:47:21] I'll just assume everywhere. [08:36:47] I wonder why common.js and .css pages are allowed for IPs [08:36:52] It should be disabled [08:37:19] Security risks [08:43:48] I don't think it is? [08:46:18] p858snake: I also just found out about it [08:46:26] see this http://simple.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:203.73.150.54/monobook.js [08:46:55] and http://simple.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/203.73.150.54 the edit summary "(Accelerated)" [08:47:05] This script http://simple.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Conrad.Irwin/creation.js [08:49:39] It doesn't appear to be working for me [08:49:51] this I assume http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?oldid=704631&rcid=799393 [08:50:11] try clearing the cache [08:50:53] Cheezy meatpie piippöls. [08:53:11] made with loving care, the best rice and carefully seasoned ground meat, 3 wieners in real gut from fines pig and the magically artery stopping 3 cheezes [08:53:36] jubo2: ? [08:53:54] I make that sometimes for my friends [08:54:13] Though I buy the meatpies from the shop like everyone else [08:54:32] jubo2: Don't you think that's a bit off-topic for this channeL? [08:55:48] Philon: there was some other chatter so I'm not like puncturing a channel silence.. oh well.. there are many channels where off-topic is appreciated [08:56:09] okay then [08:56:39] like the poor lonely kid #wikimedia [08:56:40] jubo2: but #defocus would be better, I guess [08:57:20] ##economics and ##French is more to my taste in hangouts [08:57:49] ##economics is so so so much more then just ##economics [08:57:56] it's also trading and politics [08:58:16] ##politics exists so that each and every participant may be insulted before the channel ends [08:59:00] C☭mmiemism! .. 'k nuff with political off-topic [09:00:01] How does one get from cheezy meatpie to c☭mmiemism in 8 minutes ? [09:01:06] hm, what's the magic word to suppres wikidata interwikis? [09:01:25] suppress, even. [09:01:58] {{noexternallanglinks}} [09:03:11] why is it lowercase? [09:03:26] thanks closedmouth [09:03:36] closedmouth: uppercase doesn't work? [09:04:04] i haven't tested it, all the documentation uses lowercase [09:07:36] so what [09:08:02] we usually use lowercase for parser functions and uppercase for magic words, but both are case insensitive unless something wrong happened [09:08:52] perhaps you misses a # [09:09:23] Nemo_bis: the code actually has to declare whether it's case sensitive or not, but i havn't seen a case sensitive one yet [09:09:24] Nemo_bis: nah, it works [09:10:41] DanielK_WMDE_: :) because we love nitpicking "hey, we usually write DEFAULTSORT, but formatnum; you n00b" [09:11:03] hehe [10:24:51] what api query can I use to get oldest approved revision of a page (flaggedrevs)? [10:25:08] I'm looking for a timestamp on that [10:35:34] . [12:17:55] hi [13:20:15] how can i switch off this terrible mediawiki's audio/video player and use one that build in ff? [13:20:47] (as it was before this new enabled monthes ago) [13:20:50] hey Base-w - do you mean on your own MediaWiki or within a WM project? [13:21:30] sumanah: in WMF's wikis [13:22:18] you've looked in your preferences? (I have never looked at multimedia prefs in MW) [13:22:28] with subtitles and without possibily to see description page since links are inactive [13:23:33] sumanah: i see no options for it in preferences [13:24:02] then I don't know :/ ask wikitech-l ? [13:25:05] ah lists... /me hates emails [14:04:10] I've been cleaning up http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Sites_using_MediaWiki/en, and a lot of the wikis seem to be taking longer to load than in the past (but only some, so I don't think it's a browser issue on my end). is it possible that there's something awry in one of the recent non-Wikimedia releases? [14:06:51] PinkAmpersand: interesting - mind if we talk about this in #mediawiki ? [14:07:05] sure, i'll pop over :) [14:07:27] never been sure of the difference between the two channels :P [14:07:50] actually, guess the difference is obvious. but w/e. :P [14:10:30] Sorry, what does w/e mean? :) [14:10:48] sumanah: " [14:10:53] sumanah: "whatever" [14:10:57] ah! [14:27:39] valhallasw: petan you may want to contribute to this http://www.opsschool.org/en/latest/index.html [14:27:48] hi [14:28:02] interesting [14:29:16] yeah [14:30:21] !opsschool is http://www.opsschool.org/en/latest/index.html [14:30:21] Key was added [14:30:31] oh damn [14:30:36] that is a pretty stupid keyword [14:30:42] Yeah :( [14:30:54] !school alias opsschool [14:30:54] Created new alias for this key [14:30:57] !school [14:30:57] http://www.opsschool.org/en/latest/index.html [14:31:00] here we ho [14:31:01] go [14:52:06] sumanah: interesting, thanks [14:52:13] glad to share :) [14:53:11] valhallasw: would you be interested in using your how-to-write-a-bot slide deck more widely? like maybe presenting it at another conference or 2? or using it as the basis for a blog.wikimedia.org post? [14:54:17] sumanah: there are some plans to use it for another workshop at WMNL at the end of the year [14:54:23] cool! [14:54:39] a blog post sounds like an interesting idea too. Now I just have to find the time to do that :-) [14:55:43] there was also a video recorded, but I'm not sure when/where it will be uploaded [15:11:03] valhallasw: I presume the video will go up on Commons sometime soon, once Sebastian of WMNL has processed it [15:30:12] g'morn andre__ :) [17:09:22] Hey folks. I am working on a javascript gadget... I was at the hackathon in Berlin and was advised that timo (sp?) was a bit of a guru in this area. Anyone know his username. Cheers, [17:10:19] Ocaasi: You're looking for Krinkle|detached [17:10:25] thanks! [17:10:39] is the username Krinkle? or Krinkle|detached [17:10:59] username is Krinkle, he's just not on IRC right now so "|detached" [17:11:14] gotcha. thanks! is that his wikimedia username as well, Krinkle? [17:12:12] found it, looks like yes. thanks again. [17:15:44] yup [17:51:45] Hi, I wonder if there is any way to use Wikidata in combination with Lua tables. [17:51:49] Please look at Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module:Sandbox/QuimGil/FlagTranslations [17:52:08] Instead of having each project translating manually that table... [17:52:27] ... we could have such correlations in Wikidata, with all the translations [17:52:46] For instance: [17:54:52] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Andorra.svg is the flag for en.Andorra, ca.Andorra, es.Andorra, fa.آندورا ... [17:55:52] and in fact all that data of translations is already in Wikidata: we know the correspondences of en.Andorra in all the other languages that have an article about Andorra [17:56:22] Therefore, by linking that image to en.Andorra, you could et somehow all the rest of connections [17:56:40] anomie, ^^^^ do you think this makes any sense? [17:59:24] qgil: It would make sense to store the info in Wikidata somehow. I don't know much about Wikidata to be able to tell you how to do it though. [18:00:02] anomie, thinks, I will ask the wikidata team. I just wanted to make sure it's not a silly questions. :) [18:01:01] anomie thanks, I mean :) [18:54:48] Ocaasi: Hi [19:52:25] [[Tech]]; Verdy p; /* Automatically add files that have been tagged for >7 days with either {{tl|No source}} or {{tl|No license}} to Category:Deleteme */; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=5534073&oldid=5524239&rcid=4235720 [19:57:29] https://en.greatfire.org/blog/2013/jun/wikipedia-drops-ball-china-not-too-late-make-amends "On May 31, 2013, GFW (great firewall) began to block the encrypted version of Wikipedia through port blocking. HTTPS connections are usually established on port 443 while HTTP connections are on port 80. GFW only blocks Wikipedia�s IP on port 443." [19:58:30] ooh, ugh.. are we going to be asked to offer HTTPS on 80 ?;p [19:58:58] they're too lazy to do SSL MITM? [19:59:05] one suggestion from the article: "What Wikipedia can do now is to resolve to a different IP address that is not interrupted by GFW (for example, 208.80.154.225) and more importantly switch HTTPS to default or enforce HTTPS." [19:59:25] fun part is that we're going to do that soon anyway [19:59:33] with ulsfo [19:59:45] there's also a suggestion that right now we should switch to default HTTPS on zh.* only [19:59:49] not for china [20:00:38] Oh FFS [20:00:45] Nice "journalism" [20:01:02] "Why didn’t Wikipedia make its HTTPS version default for Chinese users? It might simply be that Wikipedia staff hold Chinese readers in less regard to English ones and did not even discuss this change internally in the first place." [20:01:12] I don't understand the "How to get around this" section [20:01:20] can anyone understand what it's saying? [20:01:23] "It might be that they did discuss this action but feared that China would block the entire website again and decided against it. If this is in fact what happened, they made a very wrong decision." [20:01:33] Conjecture != journalism [20:01:35] this is advocacy more than journalism [20:01:46] Hmm I suppose so [20:01:55] Because GFW only blocks port 443 on 208.80.154.225 and 208.80.154.235 (so far), we can manually resolve domains to other IP owned by Wikipedia to bypass the block. [20:02:00] i think https getes blocked sometimes [20:02:10] and then it suggests adding the first IP to /etc/hosts [20:02:16] http://thenextweb.com/asia/2013/06/03/china-blocks-encrypted-version-of-wikipedia-ahead-of-june-4-tiananmen-anniversary/ [20:02:19] e.g. [20:02:31] as long as they have option of both, then okay [20:02:49] Their suggestion of using alternative IPs won't actually work [20:02:54] Because different IPs serve different certs [20:03:03] I hate it when journalists pretend they know how Wikimedia works. [20:03:08] why not let respond with https on all ports if requested? [20:03:20] This is an advocacy org, not a journalist [20:03:49] I also hate it when advocacy orgs pretend to know how technology works and that certain things are trivial when they're not at all [20:03:56] Jasper_Deng: aint wp a bounch of kids in their parents basement? [20:04:00] I'm happy to contact them with some corrections [20:04:23] * sumanah starts http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/pad/p/GFW-corrections [20:04:41] should include a word on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Editing_with_Tor [20:05:18] * sumanah adds that [20:05:24] mutante: is the torblock "fixed" nowadays? [20:05:43] AzaToth: i'm not sure on the status of that, that made me find the page :p [20:05:55] sounds like you can if you're logged in [20:06:18] I remember before when I tried tor I had to add myself to a torunblock group [20:06:34] but that was many years ago [20:07:07] mutante: editing with tor "is kept for historical interest"? [20:07:13] so that page is irrelevant then? [20:07:15] RoanKattouw: not anymore [20:07:32] It sounds like they aren't actually blocking the European cluster [20:07:33] RoanKattouw: we switched to a cert with all the wildcards a few months ago [20:07:37] Ooooh nice [20:08:06] * AzaToth looks around for gfwc spies [20:08:22] suddlenly, europa cluster is blocked [20:08:23] I welcome help from people on http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/pad/p/GFW-corrections to clarify things [20:09:15] we also have to remember that the TOR website is blocked in China. [20:09:42] http://tor2web.org/ [20:09:59] tried rot.org, hoping it was a legit link.... [20:10:04] * Jasper_Deng is assuming that Chinese users can't use IPv6 to get around the IPv4-based block [20:10:25] I'm having a tough time finding the records of our previous public discussion of HTTPS-by-default onlist [20:10:31] * sumanah searches her email [20:11:07] aha: [Wikitech-l] Countdown to SSL for all sessions? [20:11:58] http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/wikitech/354156 [20:11:58] http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/wikitech/354163 [20:12:03] lol [20:12:37] SSL by default needs infrastructure changes [20:12:46] {{sofixit}} [20:12:53] * AzaToth lets him self out [20:14:03] ssl by default was definitely way out there on the roadmap [20:14:24] we have approximately zero time allocated for SSL I think :) [20:14:47] what infrastructure changes are actually needed? [20:15:01] we have 4 boxes that do SSL termination per DC [20:15:22] 1) do we need more to handle the load? 2) how many? 3) how long will it take to order and install them? [20:15:27] fwiw, there are tons of mirrors i dont think they will be able to block ever http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mirrors_and_forks#How_to_list_new_mirrors [20:15:34] yes, we need more [20:15:37] but you can't really edit from those [20:15:49] with ulsfo we're experimenting with moving ssl terminators to the cache proxies instead of separate boxes [20:15:55] we'll have to see how that will go [20:16:17] SSL needs session affinity or a shared session cache, and SSL doesn't support the later [20:16:22] so this sucks from an availability perspective too [20:16:37] so we'll likely need to add this to nginx or switch e.g. to Apache 2.4 [20:16:59] or e.g. switch to stud and proxy protocol support to varnish [20:17:33] these all have been discussed a few times, but it's a non-trivial amount of work and it's not on the short-term roadmap because we have no time allocated for that [20:18:22] and we've also been asked to give more attention to ops "customers" rather than "internal" features, so I don't see it getting on the roadmap anytime soon [20:18:42] Ryan_Lane: correct me if I'm wrong here [20:18:56] hi, i need some help. [20:19:24] paravoid: yep, all of that is correct [20:19:36] I think apache 2.4 is looking like a good solution, but it needs testing [20:20:31] and yes, our priority has been constantly switched away from ops internal tasks to customer tasks [20:20:54] in two years when we're drowning in technical debt again, we'll see how that went :) [20:21:23] isn't ssl a customer task? [20:21:36] or is there nobody other than me that gives a shit and I don't count cause i don't have a budget for it? [20:21:53] I certainly give a shit about https [20:22:02] brion: I'm with you, I also care about encrypted sessions [20:22:32] all this talk of shit it grossing me out :) [20:22:35] haha [20:22:41] sorry AaronSchulz :) [20:22:44] ewwww [20:22:57] * brion retreats to a friendlier space [20:23:47] brion: sorry if I was misinterpreted, didn't mean to be unfriendly [20:23:50] I care deeply about https [20:24:01] right now we're making goals for WMF engineering for the next fiscal year -- if enough of us care about supporting HTTPS then we could talk with managers about it [20:24:01] no worries :) [20:24:22] well mobile's moving aggressively to HTTPS for login sessions and app communications [20:24:27] that's a good start [20:24:32] * brion looks at tfinc [20:24:37] I think platform was also switching to https for login sessions [20:24:40] tfinc is not in this channel :P [20:25:45] sumanah: yes, that's a good idea [20:25:56] sumanah: I (along with Ryan_Lane I guess) will try to raise it within ops [20:26:39] paravoid: ok. I was gonna offer to turn what you just wrote into prose for an email list post :) [20:26:43] want that? [20:26:45] paravoid: mark and I had talked about it during the hackathon some [20:27:23] feel free [20:27:35] seeing as that my labs resources get pulled I have a good feeling getting resources for ssl will be hard [20:28:01] and it's you and I that have been working on it [20:28:06] so, yeah. [20:28:23] I can stop working on labs for a month or two again for this like last time [20:28:44] and I have other directors complaining about my backlog, so... :) [20:28:55] OK, who's "nutsack" on the etherpad? [20:28:59] now i wonder if Chinese users can get to labs :p [20:30:37] at least wikimania is in Hong Kong and not Beijing :) [20:31:57] or Sudan, or Syria, or [20:35:55] <^demon> brion, Prodego: Pyongyang? [20:36:08] yesssss [20:38:06] paravoid: I emailed it to you, it's just a prose version of what you wrote here basically - I figure you can fix any errors & send wherever you like :) [20:40:48] <^demon> brion: I still think Wikimania on a cruise would be fun :p [20:41:03] ^demon: hey, that was my idea! [20:41:12] ^demon: yeah but the network would be shit [20:41:42] <^demon> aw :( [20:41:48] http://www.china-proxy.org/ [20:41:49] satellite Internet is also really expensive [20:42:34] did Sealand finally get overrun by the british government? [20:43:02] brion: http://www.sealandgov.org/announcements/win-a-trip-to-the-principality-of-sealand [20:44:57] ah, the previous king died last year, that must be what i was thinking of [20:45:04] place is still there :D [20:45:14] ^demon: also, it would seem that most cruise ships use NAT, so if anyone does socking, everyone loses. [20:45:40] <^demon> Freenode wouldn't like it for sure :) [20:46:35] http://www.havenco.com/ [20:46:50] it turns out a distant relative used to work on a cruise ship, and she told me that while on duty, she had to carry with her USD6000 in cash at all times [20:48:29] re: custom cruise.. it'd be like http://www.70000tons.com/ (if we bring Brandon) [20:49:30] I would think if we did Wikimania at sea, the cruise line would give it to us as a donation. [20:49:37] sumanah: .... why? [20:50:46] greg-g: evidently it was to aid passengers by giving them change. OK, ~$200 I would understand. but $6000? why?! [20:51:03] jorm: got tickets for 70000tons.com ?:) [20:51:38] sumanah: weeeiird [20:52:01] yeah. And the term for it is "float" so it's hard to do a proper search to figure out why you need to carry float on a cruise ship [20:55:44] maybe they serve bottles of vintage liquors for 5k :p [21:12:02] paravoid: did you ever get code for twitter's ssl terminator? [21:12:06] no [21:12:10] but it's in scala anyway [21:12:20] is that a bad thing? [21:13:27] it wouldn't be my first pick [21:13:45] but if it's good I guess I wouldn't mind as much [21:13:59] anyway, last time I talked with them was a year ago and they said that they weren't ready to open source it [21:14:10] but we could get an copy under NDA [21:14:15] bleh [21:14:18] and I said that we weren't very likely to do that [21:15:07] meh [21:48:06] there are some "hardware" load balancer doing ssl offloading as well :D [21:49:25] Barracuda ? [21:50:20] Radware alteon, F5 big-IP [21:50:29] there is a bunch of them on the market [21:50:38] but then that is not really open source :) [21:51:30] I am pretty sure Juniper has SSL offloading cards [21:51:40] Cisco Catalyst definitely has [21:52:06] I mean, catalyst 6500 [21:52:46] confirmed, Juniper does [22:04:11] gn8 folks [22:41:47] RoanKattouw, Krinkle: If you'd like to debug bug 43805, it is currently occurring on en.wiki. See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43805#c12 [22:42:49] kaldari: What happens if you touch the JS files in deployment? [22:43:08] it will probably fix them [22:43:21] but I'd like to find out what causes this problem [22:43:35] kaldari: Sure, but not during the crunch development time for VisualEditor, please. :-) [22:46:14] understood, although this is a rare opportunity to investigate a very problematic resourceloader bug that has been hitting us since last November [22:46:33] Rare? We seem to get it every couple of days. :-( [22:46:43] oh :) [22:46:51] I didn't know it was that common :P [22:46:57] well nevermind then [22:47:01] I wish it wasn't. [22:47:14] kaldari: I don't think this is the same bug. [22:47:49] kaldari: Is outdated js served at once, or mixed? [22:47:56] i.e. unchanged or half-changed? [22:48:19] unchanged as far as I can tell [22:49:08] do you mean within one file? one module? [22:49:29] one changeset? [22:50:00] kaldari: one module [22:50:32] kaldari: Does the load.php for the module (which concatenates multiple js files) concatenate files or new and old version? e.g. foo.js@old + bar.js@new [22:50:37] or is it all the old version [22:51:02] unfortunately, this RL module only includes 1 file [22:51:47] kaldari: In that case it is likely just bug 37812 [22:52:05] Timestamp didn't get upped, issue in deployment, scap, rsync or git. [22:52:07] touch it and sync it [22:53:15] I'll do that and leave a note in the bug [22:53:23] thanks