[00:14:20] RoanKattouw: Any luck? [00:14:46] Nope [00:14:50] It all looks like it should work [00:14:58] And it's 1:14am so I don't really want to dig to deep [00:15:17] Fair enough. :-) [00:15:25] I thought you were in S.F. [00:20:17] I normally am [00:20:20] But I'm in London this week [00:32:29] [04:42:03 PM] I think it's something to do with Labs. <-- Well fwiw, all those edits are from Labs bots. [00:33:21] Right. [00:34:24] Does Labs have its own IP addresses? [00:36:55] Some instances have public ips, not all do. [01:10:52] no one on operations? [01:12:03] mark: there? [01:13:50] * AzaToth feels so alone [01:18:18] Susan: ping [01:19:49] Hello. [01:19:50] I'm here. [01:19:58] Freebie: But if someone runs a bot, what IP is it supposed to have? [01:21:10] Susan: dunno who to poke, but I'm getting 503 from bits.wikimedia.org [01:21:12] http://paste.debian.net/7212/ [01:21:24] What URL? [01:21:30] all urls [01:21:31] Over IPv6 or IPv4? [01:21:47] watchlist, user page ipv4 (I think) [01:22:08] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Twinkle#Twinkle_down.3F ← seems more people notice it now [01:22:25] I just uploaded a new version of twinlke, and suddenly bits died... [01:22:39] Susan: Idk, thats the issue I think. Not all of the instances the bots run on have public IPs [01:23:09] "NetworkError: 503 Service Unavailable - http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php? still for me [01:23:23] Loads for me. [01:23:27] Where are you in the world? [01:23:32] And can you traceroute? [01:23:35] Europa [01:24:01] Clearly the answer is for you to move to the U.S. ;-) [01:24:11] https://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php? loads for me. [01:24:12] heh [01:24:26] /* No modules requested. Max made me put this here */ [01:24:43] http://maxmademeputthishere.com [01:24:48] hmm [01:25:18] not the nicest traceroute: http://paste.debian.net/7214/ [01:25:47] load.php used to output a blank (white) page when no modules were requested. [01:26:03] Someone named Max made Roan output a message. For situations exactly like this! [01:26:18] gj Max. [01:26:21] heh [01:27:15] I know nothing about traceroute output. [01:27:21] I just know it's allegedly useful in cases like this. [01:27:39] It seems unrelated to Wikimedia. [01:28:58] scan you test doing a cache reload on wp and see if twinlke works, so it's not some other error [01:29:08] people are starting to get angry :-P [01:29:15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#Problem_using_Twinkle [01:29:16] Lemme see. [01:29:31] Hrm. [01:29:35] That page loaded with CSS for me, heh. [01:29:53] they usually load with CSS [01:30:00] Err, without. [01:30:01] Words are hard. [01:30:02] ツ [01:30:07] Refresh fixed it. [01:30:23] Okay, prefs... [01:30:38] can a mediawiki developer comment on the edit limit on bots? [01:30:46] I enabled Twinkle. I see no Twinkle. [01:30:48] Weird. [01:30:54] any logs? [01:31:17] Yeah, a 503 error. ;-) [01:31:18] Heh. [01:31:19] From bits. [01:31:21] Weird. [01:31:22] lol [01:31:27] I'm obviously getting other CSS/JS. [01:31:31] The site mostly works. [01:31:35] so it's my change which has fucked bits [01:31:47] Did you make a change? [01:31:47] wonder how [01:32:18] uploaded change to twinkle 1 second before I started to notice errors [01:32:26] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 503 (Service Unavailable) https://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&mo…gStartedNavbar%2CNavigationTiming&skin=monobook&version=20130529T012714Z&* [01:32:34] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-Twinkle.js&diff=prev&oldid=557261853 [01:32:37] Ugh, fucking thing. [01:32:44] https://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=ext.eventLogging%2CmarkAsHelpful%2CnavigationTiming%2Crtlcite%7Cext.gadget.Twinkle%7Cext.gettingstarted.logging%2CopenTask%7Cjquery.autoEllipsis%2CbyteLength%2CbyteLimit%2CcheckboxShiftClick%2Chidpi%2ChighlightText%2Cjson%2CmakeCollapsible%2Cmw-jump%2Cplaceholder%2Csuggestions%2Ctipsy%7Cmediawiki.Title%2CUri%2Capi%2Ccldr%2Cfeedback%2Chidpi%2CjqueryMsg%2Clanguage%2Csearch [01:32:50] * ToAruShiroiNeko panics [01:32:51] Jesus that's ugly. [01:33:03] sorry [01:33:12] Susan my face when I wake up is ugly, that is just beyond hideous! [01:33:15] Hmm. [01:33:26] AzaToth: The URL is ugly. [01:33:29] ah [01:33:33] thought you meant my code [01:33:44] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-Twinkle.js&diff=prev&oldid=557261853 loaded without CSS for me. [01:33:57] LeslieCarr or paravoid: bits.wikimedia.org seems to be acting up. [01:34:19] Not sure anyone's around right now. [01:35:02] I hope the wiki will survive without TW for a while [01:35:22] no CSS for me as well this time [01:36:18] Susan do you know the bot edit limit? [01:36:37] 5000? [01:37:30] ToAruShiroiNeko: Did you look at DefaultSettings.php or noc.wikimedia.org? It's in there somewhere. [01:37:42] There are various throttles for various types of users. [01:38:00] Though bots (users logged in with the bot user right) may be exempt from a lot of those limits. [01:38:10] There's also a noratelimit group, I think. [01:38:20] Or user right, rather. It's a little complicated. [01:38:26] Just be reasonable when editing. :-) [01:49:05] Susan: u r has popupz isue? [01:53:56] Is bits having issues? [01:54:05] yup [01:54:08] Okay :P [01:54:11] This explains everything :P [01:54:14] heh [01:54:36] I uploaded a new version of Twinkle, and now bits returns 503 when you have twinkle enabled [01:55:52] FastLizard4: http://paste.debian.net/7218/ [01:56:35] Only when it's enabled? [01:56:38] yup [01:57:14] well, at least Susan didn't get the error until she enabled it [01:58:07] Hmm [01:58:10] That's odd to say the least [01:58:19] And I do certainly use Twinkle (great software, by the way) [01:58:33] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-Twinkle.js&diff=prev&oldid=557261853 [01:58:41] that's the change [01:58:43] I am getting failure to load CSS/JS all about every third page view. [01:58:53] I can't figure out what could be the cause [01:59:08] afaik a javascript error shouldn't result in a 503 [01:59:14] StevenW: using twinkle? [01:59:25] FastLizard4: you know the name for it! [01:59:27] No in general [01:59:31] May be related though [01:59:34] you have it enabled? [01:59:37] FastLizard4: I knew there was a name, I usually end up calling it "the prettiez" [01:59:40] you get 503 from bits.w.o? [02:00:19] I dont. [02:00:24] Should I? [02:00:33] asked StevenW [02:01:00] AzaToth: no, I don't have TW enabled. [02:01:04] Koi: Huh? [02:01:07] ok [02:01:19] FastLizard4: I never remember it's called "bits", so I call them "the prettiez" [02:01:29] then at least the CSS not loading wasn't related Susan [02:01:51] Oh, okay :P [02:02:06] FastLizard4: yep, I'm stupid! [02:02:16] holy shiznick, all the bits are gone now :( [02:02:21] bfore I had my dropdowns at least :( [02:02:35] yeah I'm getting 503s from bits [02:02:54] hmm [02:03:06] ori-l: one of them was related to NavigationTiming [02:03:09] https://bits.wikimedia.org/www.mediawiki.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=ext.eventLogging%2CnavigationTiming%7Cext.gadget.CodeEditor%2CEdittools%2CHotCat%2CWmfProjectStatusHelper%2CcollapsibleTables%2Cenwp-boxes%2Csite%7Cjquery.autoEllipsis%2CbyteLength%2CbyteLimit%2CcheckboxShiftClick%2CdelayedBind%2Chidpi%2ChighlightText%2CmakeCollapsible%2Cmw-jump%2Cplaceholder%2Csuggestions%2CtabIndex%7Cmediawiki.Title%2Ccldr%2Cfeedbac [02:03:09] k%2Chidpi%2CjqueryMsg%2Clanguage%2CsearchSuggest%2Cui%7Cmediawiki.api.edit%2Cwatch%7Cmediawiki.language.data%2Cinit%7Cmediawiki.libs.pluralruleparser%7Cmediawiki.page.ready%7Cmediawiki.page.watch.ajax%7Cmobile.desktop%7Cmw.MwEmbedSupport.style%7Cmw.PopUpMediaTransform%7Cschema.Echo%2CEchoMail%2CEchoPrefUpdate%2CNavigationTiming%7Cskins.vector.js&skin=vector&version=20130529T011944Z&* [02:03:15] Gah, sorry for the flood. [02:04:10] StevenW: no relation [02:04:31] StevenW: strange [02:04:31] Yeah in debug=true it's uh... a lot of bits 503s. [02:04:57] I never though ot testing in debug [02:05:25] I assumed it was my fault as I uploaded new twinkle and suddenly I got 503s [02:06:30] now the question is: whom can fix it? [02:07:55] FastLizard4|iPad: http://paste.debian.net/7220/ [10:18:03] what other sorts of pages does it give? [10:34:56] account jabber o [10:57:21] apergos: I can't query for *just* the pages that have coords at the top of the article... it gives me *all* the pages [10:58:11] I need a way to get all the English Wikipedia pages that have geo coordinates at the top of the article [11:01:07] oh, at the top [11:01:15] I missed that crucial point [11:01:55] I guess you want the template to be the first thing in the article text? [11:02:04] except maybe an infobox and / or an image? [11:23:12] Taking quotes re: Amsterdam hackathon [11:23:27] What you liked, what you didn't, that sort of thing [11:24:05] (Projects on show as well as the event itself) [11:24:38] ^ Addshore, MartijnH, valhallasw, etc, etc. [11:29:07] jarry1250: was the event broadcasted? [11:35:57] apergos: yes, I want only the main article coordinate, i.e. the one at the top right of the article, i.e "Coordinates: ..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Ames_Research_Center [11:36:49] that's using {{coord|37.415229|-122.062650|region:US_type:landmark|display=title}} [11:36:59] display=title means it'll appear next to the title [11:37:13] so it's the display=title part you need, I see [11:37:46] Yes, but I heard there some articles use other ways to display coordinates in Wikipedia [11:37:50] *are [11:38:15] sure could be [11:38:20] which is not good [11:38:30] I hate to suggest it but did you try the en wp channel? [11:39:10] apergos: that is, #wikipedia ? [11:39:29] that or @wikipedia-en [11:39:30] er [11:39:33] #wikipedia-en [11:39:38] I don't know which would be more likely [11:39:49] for someone to have an answer [11:39:51] the latter apergos [11:39:55] hmm so many channels [11:40:00] yeah [11:40:06] more than you can imagine [11:40:17] for project specific stuff like that though, you really want to ask folks that are heavy editors there [13:13:50] how to use 'periMsg' in wikieditor? [13:13:50] i write 'periMsg': 'mainpage', [13:13:58] and get [13:14:27] but with default 'wikieditor-toolbar-tool-xlink-example' it's ok [13:14:52] shall i create fancy wikieditor-toolbar-tool-xlink-lol to get sonething? [13:15:00] *something [13:16:53] ah perhaps i use all code not as i should for such tricks [13:17:09] but dk [13:17:56] matanya: The workshops were recorded, yes. [13:18:17] where can i find this jarry1250 ? [13:19:04] matanya: they'll be linked from https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Hackathon_2013/Workshops [14:01:04] Base-w: That's because the mainpage message isn't loaded on the client [14:01:08] Are you writing this as a user script, or a gadget, or an extension? [14:01:38] as a gadget. i was just trying this function but interesting [14:01:49] but tested as user script [14:02:41] RoanKattouw: ^ [14:03:11] OK [14:04:55] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/RL/DM#mediawiki.api [14:06:09] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Meta#allmessages_.2F_am [14:06:38] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?format=jsonfm&action=query&meta=allmessages&ammessages=august%7Cmainpage%7Cedit%7Crollback-success%7Cthismessagedoesntexist&amlang=en [14:07:17] $.each( data.query.allmessages, function ( msg ) { mw.messages.set( msg.name, msg['*'] ); } ); [14:07:33] Then after you've done that, mw.messages.get( 'mainpage' ) will work [14:07:38] ^ this really should be a core RL module. [14:07:50] ya srsly [14:07:57] I was asking Krinkle because I assumed there must be a utility for this [14:08:10] mw.messages.get (or rather, mw.msg) is what WikiEditor will use internally to resolve the key you give it [14:08:24] With mw.Api it's only a few lines of code. [14:09:00] Feel free to add a mediawiki.api.message utility to abstract it [14:10:06] i was going to, but those modules feature a noticeable amount of boilerplate and back-compat and i think i did something less mind-numbing instead [15:26:48] thanks [15:26:52] i'll try it later [15:50:16] http://uk.wikinews.org/wiki/ВікіНовини:Майдан why i dont see last header? *thinking* [15:51:45] seems that that newsletter brokes smth [15:53:21] but idk what and where [15:54:04] susan, ^ [15:54:57] http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вікіпедія:Кнайпа_%28різне%29#.D0.91.D1.83.D0.B1.D0.BA.D0.B0 here too [15:55:07] abusive newsletter definetely [15:59:56] http://ta.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=விக்சனரி%3Aஆலமரத்தடி#Tech_newsletter:_Subscribe_to_receive_the_next_editions and here [16:02:06] argh [16:02:32] abusive newsletter broke 10s pages crosswiki but nobody cares [17:02:10] realization: Bugzilla tries really hard to prevent you from getting an overview of what is going on/needs to happen. It wants to throw you down to the details as quickly as possible. [17:04:30] greg-g: that's why we need to unbreak the keywords and stuff [17:05:38] MatmaRex: even then, there are no useful dashboards in Bugzilla [17:07:34] greg-g: there are if you make them yourself :) [17:07:53] the search is amazingly powerful, and you can save searches [17:08:10] greg-g: you can see a list of shared searches in your prefs on bugzilla [17:08:20] there's quite some stuff in there, most useless, but some useful as well [17:08:32] such as "Bugs filed yesterday" and "Bugs filed today" i made [17:08:33] so, in my opinion, list of bugs is not a dashboard ;) [17:17:30] how do I subscribe to a bug report on github? [17:17:52] or is that "not the one true way of doing software development"? I also don't own a mac, so I might have gotten off on the wrong foot. [17:19:15] <^demon> greg-g: I know of no way without commenting. [17:19:47] ^demon: "useful" [17:53:44] jorm or some other design person: People are still complaining that they don't realize Scribunto's "Script error" is clickable. Any ideas? I was thinking putting a downward-pointing triangle just after it like you see all over gmail to indicate "click this for a dropdown of some sort" might work. [17:55:18] can you point me to an example where it fails? [17:55:21] tag [17:56:50] blue and underlined? [17:58:38] i mean, is there a link i can go to and see a failure? [17:58:41] jorm: Any page in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pages_with_script_errors. [17:59:12] How amount not making it clickable and add a little [show] link next to it [18:00:09] okay. I see what you're talking about, and this is clearly not so great. [18:01:03] Ideally, we'd get something like this: (!) A script error has occured! [View Error] [18:01:16] where the (!) is an icon, and [View Error] is a button. [18:01:24] buttons imply affordance. [18:01:38] I also don't like the popup [18:01:39] (so do underlines, but for some goddamned reason we decided to get rid of them in our links) [18:01:49] I'd rather just have it expand on the page [18:01:53] but perhaps that's just me [18:04:05] That (icon and button and everthing) would be a bit huge, though. Especially if it's in a table cell or something. [18:05:06] you're going to need to provide a call to action and an affordance. [18:05:08] Prodego: There may not really be room to expand it inline and have it display sensibly, though. Like if the error is in an infobox field or something. [18:05:19] anomie: that's true [18:12:42] csteipp: around? [18:14:49] matanya: Yep [18:15:34] hi, are we on the OTRS from source or a package? we are running 2.4.x right? [18:16:15] source [18:16:20] matanya: I know there were plans to upgrade, I'm not sure where ops is at with that. We're running a customized version. [18:16:34] (based on the source) [18:16:47] Also, we weren't susceptible to some of the other recently fixed security flaws [18:17:21] you predicted my question Reedy. thanks [18:17:50] Hopefully we should be upgraded to something new soon [18:18:10] is soon = year or two? :) [18:18:22] months maybe [18:18:28] There's a test instance up and running under testing [18:18:35] i know [18:18:35] that's nearly on the latest version [18:18:55] ok, good to know. thanks [18:19:54] Reedy: is it possible to get a dpkg --get-selection > file from one of the servers? [18:20:02] Which? [18:20:08] noting we have hundreds [18:21:43] ant application server from the pool [18:22:06] *any [18:22:09] srv* [18:28:48] Reedy: ^ [18:28:55] Why? [18:29:46] to learn what packages are used by wmf [18:29:56] the puppet scripts should give you more in-depth information on that [18:30:12] not the version used in fact [18:30:19] i saw the puppet [18:32:24] It'll be pretty much what's ever in the normal apt repos [18:32:28] unless it's self built [18:32:41] Reedy: sure, but that depends on the version of ubuntu [18:32:53] And? [18:32:54] I'm guessing most servers are running the latest stable? [18:32:58] Pretty much everything is on 12.04 [18:33:12] The DNS servers I think are the only ones on an older version [18:34:23] so Reedy if i check every package in puppet against 12.04 i'll find that out? [18:34:33] Pretty much [18:34:37] Seems a waste of time [18:34:57] just wondering [18:34:59] There shouldn't be anything secret in the list, so passing you the whole thing should be fine [18:35:26] if you don't mind, would be appreciate [20:11:32] any sysadmins around? [20:11:35] if so, press 1 [20:11:39] if not, panic [20:12:07] * ^demon puts on his panic hat [20:12:44] dont your horns prevent hat wearing? :p [20:13:12] or are you a succubus? :p [20:13:31] ToAruShiroiNeko: what's the issue? [20:13:35] ^demon I have a question in regards to edit limits for bots [20:13:55] can bots make a billion edits without hitting some sort of safeguard? [20:14:42] <^demon> Well if someone was trying to make a billion edits, I think we'd notice. [20:14:49] but yea [20:14:55] there is a rate limit on edits [20:15:03] there is no total number of edits limit [20:15:13] though it may only apply to edits made via the api [20:15:15] <^demon> Yeah, rate matters more than total #. [20:15:17] not sure about that [20:15:33] Its a figure of speech, I think there is a number of edits per minute limit for bots too [20:15:39] <^demon> A million edits over 2 years is nothing. A million edits in 2 seconds would be bad. [20:15:48] no I meant in like 2 minutes [20:15:59] I used an absurd number intentionallu [20:16:23] some wikis are trying to enforce an edit limit on bots strictly because of fear that bots would break the servers otherwise [20:16:41] I think this is somehting wikis shouldnt regulate for that reason. [20:16:45] oh well they won't [20:17:08] I was asked to attract a dev to state this [20:17:09] <^demon> https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php - ctrl+f wgRateLimits. [20:17:20] <^demon> Ok, wikis shouldn't worry about this sort of thing. [20:17:21] but you may want to restrict the edit rate such that the amount of damage caused by a mistake in the bot is limited [20:17:29] or such that recent changes is not overly spammed [20:17:34] <^demon> If there's a problem with rate limiting, we'll notice and enforce it at the software level. [20:18:10] <^demon> That doesn't mean be stupid and try to flood the API as fast as you can...best practices include waiting for maxlag and being kind to other API users. [20:18:36] Prodego if its something routine, that wouldnt matter [20:18:47] its the bot operators responsibility to clean up any mess [20:18:51] ToAruShiroiNeko: oh, it can always matter [20:19:24] just because it is the oil companies responsibility to clean up oil spills doesn't mean it is a bad idea to try to limit the damage :) [20:20:03] Prodego if I am forced to use an artificial timer tasks take forever to complete [20:20:21] since bot wont edit fast enough anyways due to latency [20:20:45] ^demon could you mention this at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Bots/Requests/%E3%82%BF%E3%83%81%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9E_robot_2 if possible? [20:21:12] ^demon the code I use pywikipediabot & awb has built in timers [20:21:59] so this is a non-issue for those but I may at times edit slightly faster than any artifical limit - mostly it wouldnt be any near it (again due to latency)