[01:28:28] * Jasper_Deng pokes Krenair [02:42:28] gn8 folks [04:32:03] need help with two configs with the newly launched Hebrew Wikivoyage - it is impossible to move pages and the TOC is floating on the wrong side of the screen (because of a default setting all users have which needs to be disabled as the default setting) [04:32:10] can anyone help ? [04:40:56] Hello. [05:49:28] hi, is there a tool which lists all articles added to a certain category during a certain time range, such as a month? thanks. [08:06:59] hi guys [08:07:13] I am looking for a help in ip lift [08:07:26] I am running a workshop and user creation has now been blocked [08:07:42] can anyone please help quickly? without needing a bug? [08:14:34] bug 46686 if someone can take up please? [08:41:08] Dhaval: sure, you :) https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Mass_account_creation [08:41:34] thanks Nemo_bis [08:42:15] damn too quick :/ [08:43:06] ah but he's sysop [08:46:46] Nemo_bis: he left IRC too. [08:47:00] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46686 filled, but without the wikis list. [08:47:11] Would you know if it's en. + commons.? [08:47:39] probably gu.wiki... [09:07:41] Nemo_bis: I prepared https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/56582/ but I'm not sure if I should wakeup someone to merge it now or I should wait gu. confirmation by Dhaval? [09:10:48] wake up definitely not! O_o [09:11:09] ask on bug if it's ok, I'd say [09:11:57] apart from odder, I don't see new accounts on gu.wiki [09:14:48] "Ladies and gentleman, after this brief theoric introduction, you will be able to create your own accounts." [09:15:06] (after this quick introduction) [09:15:42] well, I'm OK merging it, I think [09:16:06] if it's not guwiki than they're no worse off than they were before [09:16:15] * then [09:17:09] is sul autocreation throttled? [09:17:26] worst case, they have to create the account on guwp, and autocreate on whatever wiki they wanted [09:18:12] & they'll have to deal with the annoying onload font change [09:18:24] * ori-l makes a mental note to file a bug about that [09:22:18] * Nemo_bis has no idea what ori-l is talking about and +1's bug filing :) [09:22:38] when you load guwiki, do you not see one font, then another? [09:23:38] nope [09:23:43] it might only be visible on a particular combination of platform, browser & bandwidth [09:23:51] i dont... [09:23:58] my browser is surely slower than yours [09:24:03] but i have the default gu font installed on my comp [09:24:10] but maybe my machine has same font as WebFonts [09:26:24] anyways, synced [09:51:16] Thank you ori-l. [09:51:37] (can't see the two fonts on gu.) [11:45:42] andre__: have you tried disabling bugmail for cc's in the wikibugs-l bugzilla account? [11:46:01] the traffic increase that CC bug caused is rather apparent http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.mediawiki.bugs [11:46:20] +200 % at least I'd say [11:46:29] Nemo_bis, I haven't and I don't plan to. [11:46:39] aww [11:46:55] it's not possible to set yourself as global watcher? [11:47:52] Nemo_bis: hmm, maybe I should try that, yeah. I always forget to remember why I expect it to not solve the problem either :) [11:47:59] but still, why switch of CCs? [11:48:03] and what's next? [11:48:07] andre__: because it's too simple a solution? [11:48:09] nothing [11:48:15] CC's have always been out [11:48:24] and they're something like 50 % of traffic [11:48:40] "always been like that" is not a great argument to me if I want to follow what happens in Bugzilla [11:48:43] plus I didn't change the settings of that account. [11:48:48] so it's NOT always been like that? [11:48:48] yet, they're excluded by default even for the bug you're explicitly CC'ed to (only for reporter are enabled by default) [11:49:03] because there was the hack in bugzilla modifications [11:49:05] if I could rely on bugmail (which I cannot) it would be a simple solution. let's try [11:49:13] Nemo_bis, everybody is welcome to try to get that patch back in. [11:49:17] I'm neutral there. [11:49:32] andre__: yes but it's silly to spend hours trying to understand that patch when maybe a simple checkbox will do [11:49:36] but I won't go through dozens of source code lines and try to understand what was done where and try to merge them. [11:49:51] Nemo_bis, yeah, you've got a good point here. :) [11:49:51] I was preparing to spend a few hours on this but then I felt an idiot [11:51:32] still: Can't you just filter your emails? [11:51:45] CCs are interesting to me. [11:52:51] andre__: I don't bother emails [11:52:59] but? [11:53:02] notifications? [11:53:04] it's IRC and archives [11:53:10] and for other people, not myself [11:53:38] So I cripple email notifications only to make buggy IRC bots happy? Sigh. [11:54:37] wikibugs-l is a mailing list, as the name suggests :) [11:54:49] Yeah. [11:54:53] if we need a global watcher which doesn't affect other stuff, we should create it [11:55:05] but if you make yourself global watcher, you'll be that one :) [11:56:41] And generally it's not considered nice to double traffic to a mailing list without notice, btw. We're among friends so we overlook such things, but... [11:57:07] I also wonder how many people unsubscribed the mailing list and will never be recovered as bugzilla helpers [12:01:36] people should simply NOT subscribe to the mailing list. [12:01:51] it's just wrong to have a mailing list for Bugzilla email notifications. [12:02:02] Bugzilla has "User Watching" for this. [12:02:42] One more abstraction layer for the sake of nothing (except for abusing it for IRC notifications etc). [12:02:54] well, to late for that anyway [12:03:51] andre__: so you are saying developers (eg: brion for one) should just use User Watching for everything when they want to see all the bugs filed and comments, compared to subscribing to a simple mailing list? [12:04:12] and bz probably didn't even have that when the list was created [12:05:08] I'm saying that one email address should be put as globalwatcher into Bugzilla, and folks should "simply" add that to their User Watching list in Bugzilla, yeah. [12:05:19] andre__: you can create that :) [12:05:26] no reason to alter wikibugs-l behaviour [12:05:28] Way simpler than the two messages needed to subscribe to a mailing list and unsubscribe, if we want to battle what "simple" means :) [12:05:40] Nemo_bis, yes, I should test that definitely. +1 [12:05:48] on the other hand mailman has global preferences [12:05:55] p858snake|l, don't know when the list was created [12:06:05] bugmail for many is a subset of mailing list spam [12:32:41] Nemo_bis, doesn't work. [12:33:07] Nemo_bis, oops, sorry: I'm playing with globalwatchers a bit. [12:33:23] and I shouldn't add comments here before trying a bit more, sorry for the noise [12:33:25] * andre__ shuts up [12:33:42] hehe [12:33:49] thanks for experimenting [12:42:14] Nemo_bis, I created a new all-bugs@wikimedia.bugs account, added it to globalwatchers, and under https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email I removed wikibugs-l and added all-bugs@. [12:42:24] and I don't get bugmail, so something's broken. [12:44:00] andre__: we need wikibugs-l [12:44:17] andre__: to publish all the bugs changes to the mailing list :-] [12:44:18] hashar, yeah, but that's unrelated here. [12:44:23] okkk :-] [12:44:46] was referring to http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.mediawiki.bugs [12:44:47] hashar, define "all the bugs changes". People e.g. don't want CC changes. [12:44:56] and I do want all bug changes. [12:45:10] I am not sure [12:45:33] I am merely making sure the wikibugs-l will still receive some bugs :-] [12:45:58] the graphs at gmane does show that something changed 2 years ago with a loot more spam [12:46:15] and I try to receive all bug mail, and miserably fail so far. See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44929 [12:46:48] because I expect some hacks somewhere that I don't know of. [12:49:17] andre__: maybe the new account has to be confirmed in some way? [12:49:35] ot its default preferences are too restrictive, whatever [12:50:37] Nemo_bis, no, it should just work as in all other Bugzillas that I maintain. :P [12:51:36] ah well, I'll try some more stuff. Later. [15:25:22] Nemo_bis, big big thanks for pinging on this (and today I even had enough time to investigate, as I'm official on vacaction and feel like ignoring other, higher priorities a bit, hehe). I think I now know what the issue is, and changing the preferences of the wikibugs-l@ account to exclude notifications on CC field changes definitely seems like the way to go. [15:25:41] so https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43130 should get fixed soon. [15:50:30] andre__: onderful! [15:50:34] w* [15:52:26] Nemo_bis, I'm going to fix the issue soon (not fixed yet), so if you see that wikibugs-l@ still notifies on CC-only changes from tomorrow on, please reopen https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43130 [15:52:52] ok [15:54:41] long story short, sometimes "it's always been like this" works :p [16:06:55] Nemo_bis: damn. I impersonated wikibugs-l@. And it already says "Do not notify on CC changes". [16:10:05] andre__: sigh [16:10:21] Nemo_bis, so we're back on porting the patch I guess. :-/ [17:51:35] Ten minutes till LevelUp office hour in #wikimedia-dev [17:57:48] sumanah: does the Wikimedia Foundation have any role in Wikisource extension development? [17:57:59] harej: Sort of! [17:58:08] Like... they do some but not others? [17:58:17] harej: so, you're probably thinking of ProofreadPage? what other extensions do you have in mind? [17:58:53] You know the feature that has the OCR alongside the original, and then you can transclude the OCR onto a wiki page? [17:59:24] That's ProofreadPage [17:59:35] so, WMF people have helped with that some over the past year [18:00:01] as you can see with https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/status:merged+project:mediawiki/extensions/ProofreadPage+-owner:L10n-bot,n,z [18:00:12] we've helped with coding & with review [18:00:21] What if I convened a usability test of Wikisource (including ProofreadPage) with archivists? [18:00:55] That sounds like a good idea [18:01:14] I'm at an edit-at-thon and that was just an idea we came up with. [18:01:22] harej: You might want to talk with Tpt and Zaran [18:02:16] Will do. There are a lot of opportunities for archivists to volunteer but as I've been told it's a very daunting interface to use. [18:02:53] The main maintainer for ProofreadPage https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developers/Maintainers is Tpt (Thomas PT), harej [18:03:50] Thank you! [18:07:14] Glad to help! [18:07:22] Sorry, I am in the midst of a 1-hr meeting in #wikimedia-dev [18:28:07] Hello MissGayle [18:28:51] Good mroning! [19:44:51] robla: could you please also include me in emails like the last one about postponing the wikidata roll-out? abraham just happened to be around and forwarded it but i was just about to send out the weekly summary mentioning the roll-out [19:44:54] thanks! :) [19:45:35] Lydia_WMDE: hi there, sorry about that! I basically just used the email list from our weekly calendar invite, so I wonder why I missed you [19:46:03] ah...because you're not on it. d'oh! [19:46:08] robla: probably because i am not in that event - will try to get that fixed [19:46:11] :P [19:47:38] I think I just did [19:47:45] cool [19:47:46] thx [19:51:31] Lydia_WMDE: if there are l10n problems with some wikidata messages/extensions, who should I forward them to? [19:52:18] Nemo_bis: do you know if it is something the wikidata dev team has to fix? or not? [19:52:30] Lydia_WMDE: there's always something :) [19:52:35] things like https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Thread:Translating_talk:MediaWiki/About_MediaWiki:Wikibase-anonymouseditwarning/en [19:52:54] looking [19:53:05] and 7 more on https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Support/Open_requests [19:53:09] plus some I'm adding [19:53:44] ideally I'd "assign" them to you on wiki via the template and you'd find the right person every now and then [19:53:46] Nemo_bis: ideally poke me every now and then and i will find someone to take care of it (bad atm because of easter) [19:54:09] ok feel free to assign to me and poke if i miss it [19:54:17] Lydia_WMDE: sure, I didn't mean now ;) [19:54:46] :) [19:54:48] cool [19:54:50] Lydia_WMDE: I'll just let them appear on your userpage https://translatewiki.net/wiki/User:Lydia_Pintscher_%28WMDE%29 [19:54:55] k [23:37:25] Hey, is someone able to edit a mailing list archive for me? [23:37:31] (please don't stab me) [23:38:34] * Nemo_bis prepares sword [23:39:20] stwalkerster: have you read https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Remove_a_message_from_mailing_list_archive#Considerations_for_requesters ? [23:41:44] basically it's a huge pain in the butt and often causes a bunch of the mailman links to break and be rebuilt by hand [23:41:56] :( [23:41:59] private list, 11yo just published full address/school/home phone. I'm aware it's already been sent to the list, I just want to limit damage as much as possible. Message doesn't need to be removed entirely breaking links, just edited. I will leave the decision to you. [23:42:03] oh doh [23:42:07] okay [23:42:14] ah kids [23:42:40] stwalkerster: send the information to ops-requests@wikimedia.org [23:42:43] uh, we have private lists with 11 yo members, cute [23:42:50] i blame the parents [23:42:53] as well i will have to remove the 11 year old [23:42:55] Nemo_bis, external message to private list actually [23:43:01] (man being able to say that is awsome) [23:43:04] as our TOU as well as US law require that all users be at least 13 [23:43:06] who approved it :/ [23:43:09] RobH: :D [23:43:15] i don't actually care about the law, but I am required to enforce it [23:43:18] no way of telling, but I'm gonna be having words [23:43:20] indeed, LeslieCarr is right [23:43:27] if they came out on list as 11, then they are gone [23:44:02] sounds like they arent on it though [23:44:07] LeslieCarr: he said external messge to list [23:45:09] oh external message, ok [23:45:27] RobH: has your wish of precise rules/managers/time allocators for ML redacting ever realised? [23:46:33] Nemo_bis: nope [23:46:46] we just tend to say no more often ;] [23:46:56] but underage info is a case where we'll be pulling the data [23:47:02] yeah [23:47:48] LeslieCarr, sent :) [23:48:03] okay, got it [23:48:17] i'll start on this, probably replace the words with XXXXXXX or something like that [23:48:19] LeslieCarr: you are handling? [23:48:25] cool [23:48:26] yep [23:48:50] why are you folks reading mailing lists on friday anyhow!?! Go drink (not the 11 yr old, he shouldnt drink, and should stop emailing lists) [23:48:57] ;] [23:49:12] LeslieCarr: I see nothing on 13 yo on ToU btw [23:49:20] oh really ? we really should [23:49:21] it's US law [23:49:42] and we are a US company with servers housed in the US [23:49:43] LeslieCarr: I doubt legal is less conservative than needed ;) [23:50:00] well law doesn't have to be reinforced by repetitin [23:53:05] LeslieCarr: don't we have a datacenter in Europe too? [23:54:05] we do however we dont keep personally identifiable information there [23:54:08] it's all caching servers [23:54:20] like the one in SF, right? [23:54:31] yep [23:54:34] WMF still follows some EU privacy regulations IIRC [23:54:55] yeah, i think we strive to follow as many regulations as possible because it never hurts -- legal knows more abuot that [23:54:59] German courts don't care at all where your servers are, usually [23:55:18] stwalkerster: fyi i am rebuilding the archives for that list, taking a little bit.... [23:55:50] as our TOU as well as US law require that all users be at least 13 [23:55:51] ok, thanks. I don't think the archives are used regularly anyway, so as long as it takes :) [23:55:53] Does that apply to the wikis as well? [23:56:11] that's sorta debatable [23:56:32] IIRC that law requires 13 years of age only if personal info is involved