[11:18:37] <gry>	 do we have an example of a template which uses {{{2}}} if it's there, otherwise some default?
[11:48:58] <multichill>	 {{#if:{{{2|}}} | {{{2|}}} | some default }} ?
[11:49:27] <multichill>	 gry:  ^^
[11:49:47] <gry>	 danke
[11:50:05] <gry>	 i also figured out on my own meanwhile, kind of quick work i had to do :)
[11:50:17] <multichill>	 If it looks all mangled up you miscounted { or }
[11:51:17] <gry>	 meh, it worked :)
[11:51:49] <gry>	 thanks though - i know that this language of templates is confusing (i expect to ask few lua questions here a bit later after i get few things done; it's easier to read at least :)
[16:27:28] <jeremyb_>	 multichill: errr, why not just {{{2|some default}}} ?
[16:27:35] <jeremyb_>	 gry: ^
[16:28:10] <multichill>	 Because if {{{2|}}} is set, but empty, you just get nothing
[16:30:46] <jeremyb_>	 hrmmmm, k
[16:42:08] <hegesippe>	 fr.wikipedia.org unreachable
[16:45:36] <jeremyb_>	 tell me more
[16:45:48] <jeremyb_>	 hegesippe: ping
[16:46:12] <jeremyb_>	 17 16:42:08 < hegesippe> fr.wikipedia.org unreachable
[16:46:15] <jeremyb_>	 KTC: please test
[16:46:29] <jeremyb_>	 (you're in britain now?)
[16:46:42] <KTC>	 fine for me
[16:46:55] <hegesippe>	 5 minutes to get Special:Watchlist
[16:47:17] <jeremyb_>	 fast for me
[16:47:25] <jeremyb_>	 > You have no items on your watchlist. 
[16:47:26] <hegesippe>	 and I seem not to be alone in France in that case
[16:47:27] <jeremyb_>	 :-P
[16:47:43] <KTC>	 "1 page on your watchlist" may have something to do here 
[16:47:43] <jeremyb_>	 want to pastebin your watchlist?
[16:47:47] <hegesippe>	 no items ? more than 8000 pages
[16:47:55] <KTC>	 he meant him
[16:47:57] <KTC>	 not you
[16:48:03] <hegesippe>	 oki
[16:48:09] <Nemo_bis>	 hello hegesippe 
[16:48:34] <jeremyb_>	 anyway, recentchanges works fine
[16:48:37] <jeremyb_>	 for me
[16:49:30] <Nemo_bis>	 WL not slow here for lists of similar sizes on it.wiki and it.quote
[16:50:38] <jeremyb_>	 it is s2, fr is s6
[16:50:53] <jeremyb_>	 fwiwi
[16:50:56] <jeremyb_>	 fwiw*
[16:51:28] <Nemo_bis>	 yes I know
[16:51:34] <jeremyb_>	 i didn't!
[16:51:41] <Nemo_bis>	 ignorant :p
[16:52:00] <Nemo_bis>	 2 s of lag are hardly the reason I suppose
[16:52:44] <jeremyb_>	 i agree!
[16:53:53] <jeremyb_>	 robla should be getting pages still about packetloss. which started a little over 2 hours ago
[16:53:59] <jeremyb_>	 i wonder if that's somehow related
[16:54:35] <robla>	 what's going on?
[16:55:25] <jeremyb_>	 robla: slow watchlists, 2 hours of nagios pages on packetloss
[16:55:40] <jeremyb_>	 robla: slow watchlists i think are not reproducible though?
[16:55:49] <jeremyb_>	 hegesippe: please pastebin a copy of your watchlist
[16:56:05] <jeremyb_>	 hegesippe: from https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:%C3%89diter_Liste_de_suivi/raw
[16:56:31] <hegesippe>	 why?
[16:56:44] <jeremyb_>	 so that i can make mine the same as yours and see if it's slow for me
[16:56:58] <hegesippe>	 the problem of time to get a page is for every pages on fr.wikipedia.org
[16:56:59] <jeremyb_>	 as i quoted above mine is now empty
[16:57:14] <jeremyb_>	 so it's probably not a good test
[16:57:37] <hegesippe>	 for example : more than 1 minute to see this page : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unités_urbaines_du_Loiret
[16:57:45] <jeremyb_>	 well not slow for me...
[16:57:47] <jeremyb_>	 *click*
[16:58:01] <jeremyb_>	 yeah, fast
[16:58:04] <robla>	 jeremyb_: watchlist and oxygen packet loss doesn't seem related.  I don't think traffic is abnormally high.
[16:58:45] <jeremyb_>	 robla: locke went off too. yeah, i don't know what normally causes high packetloss. just seemed to be the only thing i noticed that was recently broken
[16:58:54] <Nemo_bis>	 jeremyb_: I don't know hegesippe but I wouldn't share my watchlist in public :-O
[16:58:57] <Nemo_bis>	 by email perhaps
[16:59:21] <jeremyb_>	 Nemo_bis: well it depends what's on the list! :)
[16:59:22] <hegesippe>	 I don't share my watchlist with anyone :D
[17:00:18] <robla>	 jeremyb_: the packetloss warnings are only for the analytics machines.  the warnings are loosely correlated with high traffic, but are just as likely to be caused by other things
[17:00:50] <jeremyb_>	 hah, http://status.wikimedia.org/8777/178331/Wiki-platform-%5B%5Bw:fr:Main-Page%5D%5D-%28s6%29---UNCACHED is degraded on the map but only for one country AFAICT. which is france
[17:01:41] <jeremyb_>	 this "click to zoom" feature don't work for me
[17:02:05] <Nemo_bis>	 I see a fair amount of edits by addbot on fr.wiki RC, if there's a lot of updates to fr.wiki-related entries maybe WIkidata polling is slowing WL down again?
[17:02:46] <jeremyb_>	 unfortunately the regional data is only for 24 hrs
[17:03:27] <robla>	 hegesippe: can you access other wikis (e.g. en.wikipedia.org) fine, or do they also have problems for you?
[17:04:22] <hegesippe>	 I try with homepage on ENwiki
[17:04:34] <jeremyb_>	 hegesippe: enwiki while logged in?
[17:04:44] <hegesippe>	 yes
[17:05:08] <hegesippe>	 it seems also to be very slow
[17:05:59] <jeremyb_>	 hegesippe: what about wikitech.wikimedia.org ?
[17:06:49] <jeremyb_>	 france is degraded on the map even for other SQL clusters. http://status.wikimedia.org/8777/178329/Wiki-platform-%5B%5Bw:uk:Main-Page%5D%5D-%28s7%29---UNCACHED
[17:07:45] <hegesippe>	 I see en.wikipedia.org, but the page is still "coming"
[17:09:03] <hegesippe>	 immediaye good result on wikitech.wikimedia.org, but I'm not logged
[17:09:07] <hegesippe>	 immediate
[17:10:01] <jeremyb_>	 doesn't matter, there's no caching there anyway
[17:10:20] <jeremyb_>	 robla: whatchya think...
[17:10:47] <jeremyb_>	 1) wikitech is off-cluster
[17:10:53] <jeremyb_>	 2) wikitech bypasses esams
[17:11:21] <jeremyb_>	 hegesippe: ping fr.wikipedia.org please. and tell me what IP it gives you
[17:11:27] <jeremyb_>	 (do you know how to ping?)
[17:11:43] <hegesippe>	 no
[17:13:14] <jeremyb_>	 hegesippe: what OS?
[17:13:29] <hegesippe>	 maybe: cmd ping fr.wikipedia.org (on Windows XP) ?
[17:13:33] <robla>	 hegesippe: also, which browser?
[17:13:38] <hegesippe>	 OPera
[17:13:53] <jeremyb_>	 can you try IE, firefox or chrome? whichever you have there
[17:14:20] <hegesippe>	 but how to ping with a browser?
[17:14:21] <jeremyb_>	 hegesippe: yes, cmd and then type "ping fr.wikipedia.org"
[17:14:30] <jeremyb_>	 those are different things
[17:14:34] <jeremyb_>	 1) ping
[17:14:38] <jeremyb_>	 2) try a different browser
[17:15:40] <hegesippe>	 "Délai d'attente de la requête dépassé."
[17:16:47] <hegesippe>	 Paquets: envoyés = 4, reçus = 0, perdus = 4 <perte 100%>.
[17:17:04] <paravoid>	 full output please
[17:18:08] <hegesippe>	 first line was : Statistiques Ping pour 91.198.174.225: (only this line and the other)
[17:18:54] <paravoid>	 full output please :)
[17:19:55] <paravoid>	 please give us the full output of 'ping fr.wikipedia.org', 'tracert fr.wikipedia.org', 'ipconfig -a'
[17:20:01] <paravoid>	 the last two contain private information
[17:20:05] <paravoid>	 i.e. your IP
[17:20:12] <paravoid>	 so feel free to paste them to me in public
[17:20:19] <paravoid>	 er, in private I mean :)
[17:20:27] <jeremyb_>	 i was gonna say... :)
[17:20:44] <Ryan_Lane>	 jeremyb_: well, it's on the same network
[17:20:44] <Ryan_Lane>	 re wikitech
[17:20:51] <jeremyb_>	 Ryan_Lane: not as esams?
[17:20:56] <hegesippe>	 gatting any page with Chrome seems also very slow
[17:20:58] <Ryan_Lane>	 indeed. in pmtpa
[17:21:00] <hegesippe>	 getting
[17:21:10] <paravoid>	 hegesippe: could you please do the above?
[17:21:50] <jeremyb_>	 Ryan_Lane: anyway it is somewhat isolated from the rest of the cluster. it's own memcache and SQL for instance. and of course php. so i thought it was a good variable to test
[17:23:00] <hegesippe>	 91.198.174.225 is not my ip address
[17:23:04] <jeremyb_>	 we know
[17:24:22] <hegesippe>	 paravoid, what is the exaxt syntax for cmd ?  'ping fr.wikipedia.org', 'tracert fr.wikipedia.org', 'ipconfig -a'
[17:24:27] <hegesippe>	 exact
[17:24:35] <jeremyb_>	 ping fr.wikipedia.org
[17:24:42] <jeremyb_>	 tracert fr.wikipedia.org
[17:24:44] <jeremyb_>	 ipconfig -a
[17:24:48] <jeremyb_>	 3 sepaarate commands
[17:24:55] <hegesippe>	 after the first answer
[17:24:57] <paravoid>	 that's three different commands, you type them in a command-line without the quotes
[17:25:00] <jeremyb_>	 those are exact
[17:25:47] <hegesippe>	 on the same line or separately?
[17:26:42] <paravoid>	 separately
[17:30:47] <hegesippe>	 answers for tracert fr.wikipedia.org : Détermination de l'itinéraire vers wikipedia-lb.esams.wikimedia.org [91.198.174.225] avec un maximum de 30 sauts:
[17:31:03] <hegesippe>	 first line with the reference of my box
[17:31:23] <paravoid>	 full output please
[17:31:25] <hegesippe>	 22+ lines : Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé
[17:31:27] <paravoid>	 it's the third time I'm asking
[17:31:45] <jeremyb_>	 please just paste the *whole* thing (no changes) into either 1) a pastebin or 2) /msg to paravoid
[17:31:50] <hegesippe>	 paravoid, I have no technical way to copy the content
[17:32:14] <jeremyb_>	 hegesippe: right click the title bar, what options are there?
[17:33:01] <robla>	 another data point: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Bistro#.C3.87a_rame_.C3.A9trange
[17:33:04] <hegesippe>	 fllod:
[17:33:08] <hegesippe>	 flood
[17:33:11] <hegesippe>	 C:\Documents and Settings\Administrateur>tracert fr.wikipedia.org
[17:33:11] <hegesippe>	 Détermination de l'itinéraire vers wikipedia-lb.esams.wikimedia.org [91.198.174.
[17:33:11] <hegesippe>	 225]
[17:33:11] <hegesippe>	 avec un maximum de 30 sauts :
[17:33:11] <hegesippe>	   1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  Livebox-C510 [192.168.1.1]
[17:33:12] <hegesippe>	   2     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:13] <hegesippe>	   3     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:16] <hegesippe>	   4     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:20] <hegesippe>	   5     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:22] <hegesippe>	   6     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:24] <hegesippe>	   7     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:25] <hegesippe>	   8     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:28] <hegesippe>	   9     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:30] <hegesippe>	  10     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:32] <hegesippe>	  11     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:34] <hegesippe>	  12     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:36] <hegesippe>	  13     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:38] <hegesippe>	  14     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:40] <hegesippe>	  15     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:42] <hegesippe>	  16     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:44] <hegesippe>	  17     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:46] <hegesippe>	  18     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:50] <hegesippe>	  19     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:52] <hegesippe>	  20     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:54] <hegesippe>	  21     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:56] <hegesippe>	  22     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:33:58] <hegesippe>	  23     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:34:00] <hegesippe>	  24     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:34:02] <hegesippe>	  25     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:34:04] <hegesippe>	  26     *        *        *     Délai d'attente de la demande dépassé.
[17:34:04] <c>	 there's no reason to paste all that cra
[17:34:05] <c>	 p
[17:34:06] <hegesippe>	  27     *        *        *   
[17:34:08] <hegesippe>	 sorry
[17:34:13] <QueenOfFrance>	 !pastebin > hegesippe 
[17:34:13] <wm-bot>	 Please do not paste more than 2-3 lines of text into the channel as it disrupts the flow of conversation. When sharing multiple lines of code, please use a pastebin such as <http://dpaste.com/> or <http://p.defau.lt/> and post a link to your paste in the channel.
[17:34:37] <paravoid>	 do other people experience similar problems?
[17:34:44] <guillom>	 It loads fine for me
[17:34:55] <guillom>	 hegesippe: tu es chez orange ?
[17:34:55] <jeremyb_>	 a frenchman!
[17:35:08] <jeremyb_>	 where is hashar? :)
[17:35:22] <paravoid>	 yes, he's on orange.
[17:35:33] <paravoid>	 livebox is orange's CPE
[17:35:40] <guillom>	 Right now I'd suspect a DNS issue with Orange
[17:35:45] <hegesippe>	 http://pastebin.com/a8ZMTGzT
[17:36:05] <guillom>	 hmm, but not sure that's account for the village pump reports
[17:36:23] * guillom  scrolls back

[17:36:40] <paravoid>	 hegesippe: an ipconfig -a please
[17:36:51] <paravoid>	 and that's going to contain your IP
[17:37:01] <paravoid>	 so you should just paste it on a private message to me
[17:41:26] <hegesippe>	 paravoid, http://pastebin.com/emqMs5zL
[17:41:33] <guillom>	 hegesippe: le ipconfig aiderait vraiment ; as-tu besoin d'aide pour le faire ?
[17:41:50] <paravoid>	 hah, sorry about that
[17:41:51] <hegesippe>	 voir ci-dessus
[17:41:53] <paravoid>	 ipconfig /all
[17:43:46] <hegesippe>	 paravoid, http://pastebin.com/3EN5g6yi
[17:44:07] <paravoid>	 thanks
[17:44:11] <multichill>	 guillom: Just use http://www.watismijnip.nl/
[17:44:45] <multichill>	 That's the ipaddress visible on the internet, not the natted one on the computer
[17:44:57] <guillom>	 paravoid: the ip address showed there is local
[17:45:04] <paravoid>	 I'm aware
[17:45:16] <jeremyb_>	 multichill: that's what he wanted AIUI
[17:45:40] <paravoid>	 but yes, go to that website above
[17:45:45] <paravoid>	 or www.whatismyip.com or whatever
[17:46:02] <paravoid>	 guillom: I was looking for ipv6. there is none there.
[17:46:08] <guillom>	 ok
[17:46:34] <paravoid>	 but the public v4 will help too
[17:47:24] <robla>	 hegesippe: do things improve when you log out?
[17:48:03] <hegesippe>	 robla, when I tried Chrome, I wasn't logged, and it was also bad
[17:49:03] <robla>	 hegesippe: are you using ssl everywhere?
[17:49:31] <hegesippe>	 what is ssl : url's with https ?
[17:49:35] <paravoid>	 hegesippe: www.whatisimyip.com what does it say there?
[17:50:08] * robla  suggests doing the whatismyip thing before continuing conversation

[17:50:11] <jeremyb_>	 paravoid: you have an extra letter in there
[17:50:25] <paravoid>	 hah I do
[17:50:31] <jeremyb_>	 www.whatismyip.com
[17:50:37] <paravoid>	 what jeremyb_ said
[17:50:41] <paravoid>	 it's clearly not a good day
[17:50:46] <paravoid>	 being a Sunday and everything :)
[17:51:06] <jeremyb_>	 or even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/special:mypage while logged out
[17:51:07] <c>	 let's just shut down the site on sundays, like the post office
[17:51:24] <jeremyb_>	 or https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/special:mypage
[17:51:38] <hegesippe>	 90.10.70.120 but I could answer without visting whatismyip.com :D
[17:51:41] <jeremyb_>	 c: the prague post office is open sunday i think
[17:51:49] <c>	 heresy
[17:52:09] <paravoid>	 perfect connectivity
[22:13:21] <gry>	 how do i get a list of category items created by a certain user?
[22:25:17] <gry>	 and what to I append to a template for it to add the nick of who added it to a page?
[22:36:44] <MartijnH>	 hrm. I'm trying to post a fairly massive page, containing a ton of lua {{#invoke}}s, and it keeps timing out
[22:36:47] <MartijnH>	 Error: ERR_READ_TIMEOUT, errno [No Error]
[22:38:03] <Nemo_bis>	 Then you probably should not do it.
[22:40:30] <MartijnH>	 sounds reasonable, that will take care off that
[22:51:31] <Isarra>	 What version of imagemagick do wikimedia wikis use? Or do they use imagemagick at all?
[22:51:47] <Nemo_bis>	 Yes.
[22:52:23] <Nemo_bis>	 Searching bugzilla comments may give you the answer (or some shell user of course).
[22:52:38] <Isarra>	 Right, that's why I asked here.
[22:56:31] <gry>	 i asked couple questions a bit ago, if someone could take a look please, thanks
[23:01:06] <Platonides>	 Isarra, I suspect it's version 6.6.2.6-1wm3
[23:01:26] <Platonides>	 er... 6.6.2.6-1wm4
[23:02:17] <Isarra>	 Platonides: Thanks. That's older than I would have expected.
[23:02:29] <Platonides>	 I just looked at http://apt.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/pool/main/i/imagemagick/
[23:02:41] <Platonides>	 does ubuntu have a newer version?
[23:40:10] <gry>	 yes it does, except that you quit :-\