[00:08:36] Hello, coleagues! I'm Medeyko from WM RU. Could anyone advise me, whom should I address questions related to getting Wikimedia traffic from Internet Exchange in the Netherlands? [00:08:56] Thanks in advance! [00:12:39] drbug: You're looking to peer with Wikimedia? [00:13:18] Yes. [00:14:08] (Not me personally, of course, but a Russian Internet Exchange company conacted Wikimedia Russia for this.) [00:14:16] You probably want to talk with our operations networking guys. [00:14:48] Could you please say me who are they? :-) [00:15:02] If you come back during the normal European work day, chances are mark will be able to point you in the right place [00:15:27] Ah, here, on this IRC channel? [00:15:31] Yup [00:15:50] Wilco! Thank you very much! [00:15:53] drbug: LeslieCarr is also an appropriate person [00:16:02] Aha! [00:16:36] But she is rather busy atm [00:18:18] Ok! Thanks, I will write her, probably she will be able to answer! [00:18:52] paravoid: Or is there a relevant queue on RT drbug could use? [00:19:01] noc@wikimedia.org [00:19:25] http://as14907.peeringdb.com/ [00:20:02] drbug: ^ Might be of more immediate use [00:20:07] or peering@wikimedia.org [00:20:18] Aha! Great! [00:20:19] And I guess https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Peering [00:20:26] yep [00:22:03] um the little glass icon is missing from the search bar on the foundation wiki [00:22:13] It's very useful, thank you! [00:22:36] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 (Not Found) https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.21wmf1/skins/vector/images/search-ltr.png?303-4 [00:22:36] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 (Not Found) https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.21wmf1/skins/common/images/poweredby_mediawiki_88x31.png [00:22:42] wmf1 [00:22:55] Purged [00:23:15] Though, that's slightly concerning [00:23:47] wmf1 was out of usage by 24th October [00:24:02] and by the 17th for foundation [00:24:07] drbug: hey [00:24:24] drbug: as paravoid and reedy said, that's all the information :) [00:24:55] robla: You might be interested to know ^ wikimediafoundation had a cached page still using 1.21wmf1 resources [00:25:10] a good three months since.. [00:25:31] Reedy: hrm [00:26:21] Not sure if that was EU only [00:26:31] LeslieCarr: are there any formal agreements required to peer at SARA (AMS-IX), or the peer is public and free? [00:26:34] hah, tampa has an exchange?!! [00:27:18] http://www.tampaix.net/participants.shtml [00:27:21] We're one of 4 participants! [00:27:47] Should Wikimedia take any actions in order to allow the peering? (Sorry for dumb questions :-) ) [00:28:01] yes, a BGP session needs to be set up from both sides [00:28:23] we peer with AMS-IX route servers though (iirc) [00:28:32] so you could just peer with them and no action needed from our side [00:29:51] 'wgSquidMaxage' => array( [00:29:51] 'default' => 2678400, // 31 days seems about right [00:29:51] 'foundationwiki' => 3600, // template links may be funky [00:29:53] :/ [00:30:57] 60 hours? [00:30:57] drbug: public and free [00:31:14] Reedy: found another example (https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Executive_Director ) . HTTP header: If-Modified-Since:Sat, 08 Sep 2012 00:00:00 GMT [00:31:41] Confirmed EU too [00:32:09] Ok! Thank you very much, I think that your advices and the information I've read at the links you provided are enough for our meeting tomorrow :) Maybe I will ask some more questions then! [00:32:15] I wonder if this is just foundation related.. [00:32:17] Reedy: the modified time is set as the edit time, though, right? [00:32:25] drbug: so, who is it that wants to peer with wikimedia? [00:34:57] I think they don't think it's a confidenial information. It's DataIX, listed fifth by average throuput here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_exchange_points_by_size [00:35:29] Seems to be page_touched [00:37:29] No page on enwiki though!! [00:39:22] Reedy: Yes, I was suprised as well... [00:40:10] Neither do ruwiki or dewiki.. [00:41:11] gn8 folks [00:41:19] Reedy: In RuWiki there's only a side mention in general article about IX'es. [00:41:54] However, it's a quite new and quickly developing company, established in 2009. [00:42:29] Certainly in good company [02:08:09] https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Peering&diff=87455&oldid=82659 [11:03:06] Seems like the system messages are still screwed up at nowiki [11:03:38] Local versions are still not being used [11:06:12] It seems a bit weird if it's only nowiki.. [11:15:41] Reedy: not so much, it's since the nb->no rename IIRC [11:15:53] wait it's not weird [11:16:16] yeah there's the rename, (also I remember that this was one of the few wikis with the interwiki dup keys issue) [11:17:24] When was the rename done? [11:18:03] eh don't remember [11:18:38] lol [11:18:44] sorry... [11:18:48] Not a recent change, right? [11:18:52] nb->no? [11:19:01] not last week no [11:19:18] The wikis url is no.wikipedia.org [11:19:31] they used the language code no [11:20:03] but there should be no system messages for the no code, it is a meta code [11:20:25] the language code should be nb [11:20:53] Wasn't there some change in the i18n code related to this sort of language code? [11:20:57] It seems familiar [11:21:03] they have chosen to continue to use no as subdomain due to historical reasons [11:21:23] there is a bug about the language code [11:21:30] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17047 [11:21:33] that's an old one [11:21:41] but I can't remember if it ever got officially fixed [11:22:52] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37528 [11:25:57] Take a look at Special:Allmessages [11:26:00] http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spesial%3AAlle+systembeskjeder&prefix=Mainpage&filter=all&lang=nb&limit=50 [11:26:51] Mediawiki:Mainpage is set locally, but the local value doesn't show up in the list [11:31:48] no was renamed to nb more than a year ago https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Portal:Nb&diff=3561242&oldid=3148656 [11:35:08] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44537 [11:35:18] Set up a bug for this [11:39:18] Jeblad_WMDE: do you confirm that it's happening since https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=mediawiki/core.git;a=commit;h=32ecfdc6a37fc41b50ccdc05288f80617555897c ? [11:39:37] or is it unrelated [11:42:17] This was reported only minutes after the rollout yesterday [11:42:54] I had the first personal call an hour afterward [11:43:19] * Jeblad_WMDE mumbles that he is the bugzilla [11:46:49] Jeblad_WMDE: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.21/wmf8 glhf [11:56:09] ah [11:56:38] so isn't it https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/35383/ , probably? [11:56:46] Can't find anything obvious [11:57:12] nothing is obvious in language fallbacks [12:01:40] as in the list from reedy [12:02:20] I think the caching of messages for nowiki is screwed up [12:02:52] The sidebar had a layout that was traced back to a version in 2008 [12:03:27] there's a known bug for that [12:12:30] Jeblad_WMDE: like https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5092 ? [12:17:42] Well, it seems related.. But the sidebar can't be just purged to get it back [14:38:49] [[Tech]]; MarcoAurelio; /* CSS for {{tlx|fmbox}} */ new section; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=5172708&oldid=5134272&rcid=3867211 [14:39:18] [[Tech]]; MarcoAurelio; /* CSS for {{tlx|fmbox}} */ ; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=5172718&oldid=5172708&rcid=3867215 [14:43:38] [[Tech]]; MarcoAurelio; autoarchive threads older than 30 days in yearly archives following SAS; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=5172763&oldid=5172718&rcid=3867234 [15:08:18] any folks from no.wikipedia.org? [15:11:27] siebrand: is my assumption that no.wikipedia.org should use $wgLanguageCode = 'nb' correct? [15:14:16] wizardist: you can't really do that [15:14:25] hashar: why? [15:14:37] cause the database is named nowiki [15:14:43] and all urls points to no.wp.org [15:14:50] oh, yes you can! [15:14:51] so you can't really fix the language [15:15:09] unless we migrate the db and set up some back compatibilities url to redirect from the old domain to the new one [15:15:11] tell me then why be-x-old.wikipedia.org has wgLanguageCode be-tarask? [15:15:21] ah [15:15:36] http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php look for section wgLanguageCode :) [15:15:53] Note that the subdomain-issue is a looong discussion with a looot of flames [15:16:18] renaming is a tough issue and is not connected to this guys! [15:16:30] ahh https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19986 [15:16:31] renaming a project* [15:16:38] that one is a long bug [15:16:56] I'm now concerned by https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44550 [15:17:08] I just says so, so please don't reignite the discussion! :D [15:19:38] if one adds 'nowiki' => 'nb', please don't add "# to rename". I know about the shight wars around Norwegian wikis :) [15:20:03] actually, I wonder why wasn't this added years ago [15:20:57] * Jeblad_WMDE reads the on-going discussion at no.wp and giggles [15:21:15] They are a little frustrated XD [15:21:49] Unexpected bugs will happen, and some clever people will fix them [15:23:01] I said I thought something changed recently ;) [15:24:29] :*( [15:25:42] Someone propose to go to strike action against the developers! O_O [15:25:54] Wonder if that would work.. XD [15:31:37] changing $wgLanguageCode shouldn't break anything [15:31:59] can't shells just try? :) something has to be done immediately... [15:42:27] Nemo_bis: I tested it on my local installation and according to result, it should actually fix it. [16:31:38] MaxSem: so geodata is now enabled on all wikipedias? [16:31:52] Nemo_bis, it was for a month:) [16:32:10] MaxSem: you said it was going to be en.wiki only for a while so I never looked into it again [16:32:39] just now we're confident that it will not explode in your face. at least, not very spectacularly:) [16:40:35] MaxSem: how come you chose solr for spatial queries? [16:44:13] I ain't chose it [16:44:21] Asher did [16:44:35] my original plan was to use Sphinx [16:44:46] (at Asher's suggestion) [16:45:15] but when I did it, he just told me "oh, we're going to install Solr, so please use it" [16:46:57] paravoid, why do you ask? [16:47:04] you have some problems with Solr? [16:47:13] no, just wondering [16:47:33] would sql gis queries have worked for the same purpose? [16:47:38] maybe with mariadb 5.6? [16:48:56] indeed they appeared for innodb in mysql 5.6 [16:49:23] however, this was supposed to be released much earlier than now [16:49:55] okay [16:50:11] but otherwise there's no other issue with using that? [16:50:58] I doubt MySQL can be used the way we're using Solr ATM [16:51:05] how is that? [16:51:38] I know nothing of GeoData (just what is in the blog post) and my GIS knowledge is also limited [16:51:42] we're searching not only by coordinates but also by a number of parameters [16:52:26] since you can't cover it all by a single index, it's extra IO load [16:53:02] also, you either filesort in mysql or retrieve large datasets and sort em in PHP [16:55:50] as the matter of fact, GeoData supports DB searches (using tiled, not spatial searches) and I really wanted to try it out first as a first iteration [16:56:04] but it never went beyond testwiki [16:59:20] paravoid, also MySQL spatial indexes are freking slow to update [17:00:21] good to know [17:02:59] MaxSem: will we also be able to cross-check coordinates across different wikis? [17:03:29] that will be the subject of wikidata integration, later [17:03:51] ah [17:04:00] maybe before that someone will heavily use APIs [17:04:47] in principle, ATM coordinates from all wikis are stored in the same index so cross-wiki searching is technically possible [17:05:16] [[Tech]]; Ruslik0; /* CSS for {{tlx|fmbox}} */; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=5173902&oldid=5172763&rcid=3867540 [17:05:17] however, we will likely scale by splitting it per-wiki [17:07:36] aww https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Special:Log/delete [17:08:03] yeah [17:08:12] I almost blocked him when I saw RC [17:08:31] "zomg hijacked root account":P [19:05:04] howdy folks [19:05:25] you guys can deploy Guided Tour whenever you like [19:05:38] E2 isn't using our deployment window [19:11:26] [[Tech]]; MiszaBot; Robot: Archiving 25 threads (older than 30d) to [[Tech/Archives/2012]].; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=5174749&oldid=5173902&rcid=3867762 [19:12:11] kaldari, how can one test changes on test2 ? [19:14:34] it's complicated... [19:15:05] you have to just turn on the extension on test2 and turn it off everywhere else and do a full deployment to that wmf version [19:15:55] I think test is still usable though (via NFS through fenari) [19:16:07] but of course the i18n messages won't be updated [19:24:09] spagewmf: Who doing the actual deployment? [19:24:13] who's [19:44:57] kaldari, superm401 live from Philadelphia, PA. Also, we have the MoodBar wmf-config change, please can you verify https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/46962/ [19:48:21] looking... [19:50:27] spagewmf: merged [20:38:34] [[Tech]]; MarcoAurelio; /* CSS for {{tlx|fmbox}} */ re; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=5175402&oldid=5174749&rcid=3867970 [20:40:56] [[Tech]]; PiRSquared17; /* HTTPS on Wikidata */ new section; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=5175413&oldid=5175402&rcid=3867972 [20:47:54] our ganglia is open to the public again [20:48:08] sumanah: hey [20:48:56] sumanah: I vaguely recall mentioning Ganglia in a presentation and talking with RobH about that, or something? if so, Ganglia is open again [20:49:20] huzzahhhhh [20:49:56] kudos go to csteipp of course [20:52:39] i emailed guillaume about it as well [20:52:41] since its open again [20:55:05] hi there paravoid - it is? ok! yay! I can revert that one change to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Blog/Drafts/Ops,_2011-2013 then [20:55:37] ah! [20:55:50] done [20:56:08] great [20:56:25] yeah! [20:56:32] paravoid: do you have any corrections for that piece? [20:56:39] fosdem is coming up, it'd be a shame to not have that open during that [20:56:40] I have gotten a couple of minor things [20:56:47] (corrections) [20:57:40] I haven't really looked at it [20:58:20] looking now [21:00:04] okay, first of all we're not really comparable to Facebook or Google IMO [21:00:21] fundraising keeps saying that but I think it's an oversimplification and really unfair [21:00:44] that doesn't mean I don't think is (or was a year ago) understaffed [21:01:08] but not by a $GoogleSREs - 14 margin [21:03:53] I don't think puppetization is done as implied, but it does the job for eqiad [21:04:15] I tend to agree with the closing argument made by Asher in that [21:04:50] how can one tell _why_ a page is "broken" for translation? The extension merely says: "Older versions of these pages are marked for translation, but the latest versions cannot be marked for translation." [21:04:52] "the continuous arc of refirenement" one [21:04:59] which is one of the reasons I don't really like making such a big fuss out of this eqiad migration :-) [21:05:07] but I'm not really a PR kind of guy [21:05:33] aharoni, ? [21:05:38] sumanah: that's about it [21:05:45] sumanah: if you prefer mail, I can do that too fwiw [21:10:58] "closing argument"? sounds legal :) [21:11:22] abartov: usually it's some unbalanced tag, what page is it? [21:14:02] thanks paravoid - am back now, reading backscroll [21:14:26] abartov: well, [[Grants:Index]] I guess? [21:15:16] paravoid: can you suggest how understaffed Ops was or is? Like, we have about 4 openings right now. Does that mean that when we were at 6 people, we were at about 1/4 staff we should have had? [21:15:22] am happy to take out the FB/Google thing [21:15:57] abartov: there's just no translation tag whatsoever there [21:16:19] abartov: also, why LabeledSectionTransclusion? it doesn't interact well with Translate, most likely [21:16:32] sumanah: my personal pov is that 14 is not enough, but I guess if we could make that argument right we'd have more headcount now, wouldn't we? :) [21:17:03] paravoid: if you add 14 to the 4 openings we're at 18. How many do you think it should be? [21:17:20] paravoid: "I don't think puppetization is done as implied, but it does the job for eqiad" - can you clarify? Not sure what you mean [21:17:50] the blog post kind of implies the process of puppetization is over [21:18:15] I don't think we're there (or that if we ever going to to be I guess) and that we have a long way ahead [21:18:17] Ah, I see now what you meant by "is done" (I thought you meant that I mischaracterized what it's like to puppetize) [21:18:37] but what we have clearly works for the purposes of bringing up the new DC [21:19:15] oh, and another thing I forgot [21:19:34] bringing up eqiad was also a big effort from platform team's side [21:20:26] What's the best place to look to see the TODO/DONE of services puppetized & services to puppetize? [21:20:46] I don't think there's any [21:21:33] OK. Then is there any estimate of how many services are yet to puppetize, or what amount of work that will be, or anything like that? [21:21:47] not really, it's very hard to say [21:21:52] also it's not just an amount of services [21:21:57] Right, I know [21:22:32] so for example, whether that particular module works for labs purposes is a whole different story [21:23:17] <^demon> Indeed. There's lots of stuff that puppetized well enough for prod, but doesn't even start to work in labs. [21:23:55] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Roadmap#Technical_Operations_2 says that in Feb Ops will: [21:23:55] Deploy Ceph@Eqiad [21:23:55] Deploy 'test / beta 'OTRS [21:23:55] Labs database @ tampa [21:24:32] What does "Labs database @ tampa" mean? [21:24:44] Move the Labs database to Tampa? [21:25:52] and if there's to-puppetize stuff that people are immediately working on, I can add that to the Roadmap & to the blog post [21:26:26] or "to improve Puppet manifest of" [21:29:09] nemo_bis: thanks, I'll look into that shortly -- entered a meeting now [21:30:19] paravoid ^ [21:31:08] abartov: ok [21:40:39] paravoid: and I understand that, from your perspective, Ops is a continuous arc of refinement, but the rest of the community needs lenses to understand your work, and the EQIAD migration is a useful lens [21:41:22] if you want there to be blog posts about other aspects of your work then I am happy to help out with those as well, although I might be doing more interview-and-edit than the writing bit [22:15:03] kaldari, http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/How_to_deploy_code#Step_2:_get_the_code_on_fenari suggests run sync-common on srv193 to make testwiki work better. How long does that take? [22:15:26] spagewmf: Not long, a minute or so [22:16:00] RoanKattouw it took about 4 minutes, but thanks. [22:16:13] OK [22:16:27] Hah, that's surprising [22:16:32] jdlrobson: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ABannerLoader&banner=B13_0128_i18n_lpbanner&campaign=none&userlang=en&db=enwiki&sitename=Wikipedia&country=US [22:16:36] It was faster about a year ago [22:16:46] <^demon> Lots of things used to be faster. [22:16:59] <^demon> Like MediaWiki before resource loader. [22:17:00] <^demon> *zing* [22:17:31] jdlrobson: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:BannerRandom?userlang=en&sitename=Wikipedia&project=wikipedia&anonymous=true&bucket=0&country=US&slot=24 [22:18:08] OK, someone told me that some people within Ops prefer that we not link directly to wikitech.wikimedia.org if we think we're going to direct a lot of traffic to it, because it can't handle a lot of traffic. Any corroboration? [22:18:14] if so, I should put it in the blog guidelines [22:18:47] it's also weird if there's any content suitable for a blog-audience there [22:20:41] <^demon> sumanah: Well, it runs on a single VM on linode, so it doesn't scale nicely. [22:20:46] Nemo_bis: I'm pointing to the EQIAD migration plans, the page about the Ops roadmap for 2012-13, incident response, etc [22:21:15] People who are interested in this post will possibly be interested in seeing those things, even if it's a brief glance [22:23:14] I like that https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Eqiad_Migration_Planning/Steps has only Day 1 [22:24:42] ok, added a "don't send a lot of traffic to wikitech" to the blog guidelines [23:18:30] mwalker: CentralNotice is not $wgScriptPath aware? [23:19:12] jdlrobson: look in centralNotice.php:efResourceLoaderGetConfigVars(); we use wgScript [23:19:19] ah ok [23:20:31] mwalker: even with that defined I seem to be getting requests to http://localhost/Special:BannerRandom?userlang=en&sitename=JDLR&project=wikipedia&anonymous=false&bucket=1&country=US&slot=14 [23:21:17] where are you trying to get it to point to? [23:23:32] $wgScriptPath = "/w"; [23:23:33] $wgScript = "$wgScriptPath/index.php"; [23:23:36] ^ mwalker [23:25:16] jdlrobson: actually -- you may have just discovered a bug -- it's a hack but you can manually set $wgCentralBannerDispatcher = "//localhost/w/Special:BannerRandom" [23:25:54] ok thx [23:28:34] jdlrobson: yep -- nice bug catch -- and here I was about to deploy that code :p [23:50:47] mwalker: is the impression tracking a required component? [23:50:49] hello people [23:50:49] who deployed {{#coordinates}} on all wikis, and why i only hear about it after it's enabled? i'm subsribed to virtually all announcement channels i know of [23:50:49] (of course this should have been posted to wikis' village pumps anyway) [23:51:14] jdlrobson: for the moment yes -- but only because I didn't add in something to easily disable it [23:51:27] mm interesting [23:52:30] jdlrobson: and it's something we need to be able to track for fundraising -- because that's the case we could add some code to only do impression tracking for fundraising class banners [23:57:38] Isarra: ping!