[00:33:02] binasher: there are a couple of classes that lsearchd exports via RMI, I assume those are the things that are hanging [00:33:31] I'm pretty sure I've worked out how to set connect and read timeouts on them, I don't see any comments nearby though [00:33:35] TimStarling: i think so [00:35:56] registry.rebind(name, UnicastRemoteObject.exportObject(engine, 0)); [00:36:22] UnicastRemoteObject.exportObject() optionally takes an RMIClientSocketFactory as a parameter [00:36:41] you can subclass RMIClientSocketFactory to generate socket with timeouts set on them [00:37:22] then the registry sends the RMIClientSocketFactory to the client, and the client will use it to create sockets that time out for connecting to the server [00:37:38] it seems a bit backwards to have the server specify client connection parameters, but that's java for you [00:39:01] TimStarling: the commented out portion i was thinking of earlier is in src/org/wikimedia/lsearch/search/SearchEngine.java [00:39:41] er no, src/org/wikimedia/lsearch/search/TimedTopDocCollector.java [00:40:26] i don't think that code is used at all [01:25:25] Ryan_Lane: issues in europe are no more right? [01:25:36] /topic && #wikimedia-fundraising [01:25:44] whoops [01:26:10] i think that was pmtpa vs. esams bits [01:26:18] Who is wm-bot? [01:26:27] Nathan2055: not a human... why? [01:26:30] I think I had some info on him, but i lost it... [01:26:37] Type @commands for list of commands. This bot is running http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WM-Bot version wikimedia bot v. 1.10.4.10 source code licensed under GPL and located at https://github.com/benapetr/wikimedia-bot [01:27:13] Thanks. [02:17:34] !log updated payments cluster to 6ea97a5cbc06 [02:17:43] Logged the message, Master [09:17:44] missing texvc binary somewhere ? [09:17:45] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Demo_of_missing_texvc_error_message.png [09:18:30] seems like one of the servers in that pool is not a math enabled server [09:26:30] possibly related to https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41188 ? [09:55:47] Hi [09:55:53] Is Bugzilla down? [09:57:49] WikimediaPH_Butc: looks like it [09:58:05] watchmouse agrees too [09:58:35] yes even wm-bot is angry about it [09:58:43] it can't read the feed of bugs :/ [09:58:49] poor guy [09:59:06] uh oh [09:59:38] Oh [09:59:59] I am about to file a bug request for our activity this Saturday [10:01:09] i see you've learned to ask ahead of time for a change [10:01:16] still 5-7 days is better [10:01:24] especially around a big holiday weekend [10:01:41] (this is a big holiday starting in 20ish hrs) [10:03:28] I know that. Bureaucracy even on schools sucks [10:03:48] I posted the request 3 weeks ago [10:04:06] do you have the #? [10:04:13] They only responded an hour ago [10:04:33] 202.78.87.131 [10:04:48] Location of IP address: James O' Brien Library Computer Laboratory, Ateneo de Naga University, Naga City, Camarines Sur, Luzon, Philippines [10:05:13] the library is closed at this hour. [10:05:25] Date and Time Covered: November 24, 2012 00:00 - 11:59 PHT (16:00 UTC 23 November - 15:59 UTC 24 November) [10:05:44] Websites: BCL.wikipedia.org, EN.wikipedia.org, TL.wikipedia.org [10:06:43] Bikol Wikipedia administrators are spearheading the outdoor events while other Filipino Wikipedia administrators are on their other personal commitments and are not present in Naga City. Wikipedia Non-admin editors are at the Library. [10:11:05] Bug 42319 [10:11:09] * jeremyb wonders why start at midnight [10:11:15] !b 42319 [10:11:15] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42319 [10:12:34] also, you mean 23:59 PHT ? [10:12:41] or really 11:59 ? [10:13:03] WikimediaPH_Butc [10:13:54] Actually just to cover the entire day. It can be changed at 04:00 PHT [10:14:30] you mean start at 04:00 ? [10:14:33] what about end? [10:14:35] They will assemble at wee hours for the Wikipedia Takes Naga event [10:14:59] what about end? [10:15:12] I am expecting people to edit even on 11:00 pm for the Naga Edithon [10:15:27] this is not about editing [10:15:35] this is about when people will be creating accounts [10:16:02] 20:00 UTC 23 Nov to 15:59 24 Nov [10:16:33] ok, so 4am to midnight local time [10:16:54] I understood. We cannot control people at what specific time they will create accounts. [10:17:27] how many people will be there? [10:17:54] Its a double event on 24 Nov [10:18:06] errrr [10:18:09] how many people will be there? [10:19:09] So far 80 expressed intention to go for Wikipedia Takes Naga and about 50 in the Naga Edithon. I cannot provide an exact figure as we expect walk-ins [10:21:17] ok, well you'll have local bclwiki sysops on site to make more if needed [10:21:25] 150 should be plenty i think [10:26:46] yeah. I am not onsite as I am on a meeting with Wikimedia Indonesia. [10:27:00] in Jakarta [10:27:04] with who? [10:30:57] Siska, John of WMAU, and the rest of the WMID gang [10:31:46] oh, John, cool [10:32:56] !g I6366328daecf70073ed | WikimediaPH_Butc [10:32:56] WikimediaPH_Butc: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#q,I6366328daecf70073ed,n,z [18:32:32] sumanah: like here? :) [18:32:56] Nemo_bis: sure, why not [18:33:08] so, in reference to https://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/11/21/lead-development-process-product-adviser-manager/ [18:33:41] sumanah: the problem with 'ops' is that those are requests nobody but ops has any clue on how difficult they are [18:33:48] So the PM can learn. [18:33:57] And discuss with them. [18:34:30] sumanah: the volunteers? [18:34:35] Sure. [18:34:41] I doubt so [18:34:42] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&keywords=ops&keywords_type=allwords&list_id=161529&query_format=advanced&resolution=---&order=bug_severity%2Cpriority%2Cproduct%2Ccomponent&query_based_on= [18:35:20] e.g. nobody knows why https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22622 has been stuck for so long [18:35:40] There is nothing magic about ops that makes it impossible for other people to be able to give useful input. Even if what the PM does is take 30 minutes to interview Ops people about "how hard is this bug? why?" and updates 5 bugs a week for 10 weeks with a nicely written summary, that's useful [18:35:46] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27291 is internal policies [18:36:31] I don't see how ops can provide useful input on bugs without actually looking into them [18:36:43] So, for bug 22622 the PM would find out, and update the bug. For 27291 the PM would look into it and make a decision. [18:36:58] but I guess some sort of distributed poking+bug triaging could be helpful [18:37:03] I don't understand why you think a PM has magical powers to decide on stuff without looking into them. Of course the PM investigates and learns. [18:37:13] ah, misread your noun there [18:37:14] for 22622 he'd just never find out anything useful [18:37:17] s/he [18:37:37] for 22622 the PM would be the person who decides whether we should just go ahead and buy the cert because that's better than arguing about it [18:37:40] ah, this explains it [18:37:56] Nemo_bis: was this unclear in the blog post? [18:38:07] "there should be someone responsible for ensuring that the various ideas come together into a coherent whole, one that addresses the problem at hand. That responsibility lies with the Product Manager." [18:38:21] sumanah: it's a bit unclear how those wildly different areas can be helped [18:38:31] Nemo_bis: honestly I think that was pretty clear in the post [18:38:39] ":systems administrators can use help understanding which of them are urgent and which of them don�t actually have the necessary consensus." [18:38:45] for example [18:38:59] "track the progress of these improvements; comment on tasks or proposals; reach out to the Wikimedia reader and contributor communities to ask for feedback via wikis, mailing lists, and IRC; help developers see what users� needs are; and set priorities on bugs and features, thus deciding what developers ought to work on next." [18:39:01] I agree on that one :) [18:39:11] obviously different areas will need different subsets of that list [18:39:14] this is trickier [18:40:10] ops requests seldom have consensus or prioritizations problems [18:40:15] actually they do [18:40:33] do they? [18:40:35] yes [18:40:36] yes [18:40:42] :D [18:40:44] I'm not sure why you think they don't [18:40:48] do you have some evidence? [18:40:58] the main problem with ops requests is IMHO that nobody knows who's responsible for the decision [18:41:00] and I think this is the basis of your misunderstanding [18:41:05] somtimes we need to decide if the request (as described) makes sense or is manageable [18:41:05] Nemo_bis: guess what product managers do? [18:41:11] they are responsible! [18:41:44] sure [18:42:10] and we always have less time than there are tasks, so yes, prioritizing [18:42:48] sumanah: how can https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16112 be helped, for instance? [18:43:03] I think any volunteer would put this at the top of all priorities [18:43:31] well ahead of AFT or almost any other project [18:43:52] but nobody knows how impactful it will be on the cluster [18:44:04] Nemo_bis: well, then, the volunteer would *talk with Ops* [18:44:09] that's the heart of a lot of this [18:44:10] sumanah: this has never helped [18:44:22] dozens of attempts to talk about that have been done [18:44:27] what has failed, then? [18:44:30] but just nobody is able to answer [18:44:41] then the volunteer would take the data and make a decision [18:45:02] if the problem is that no one is deciding, the volunteer would make a decision [18:45:42] as product manager [18:47:34] Nemo_bis: for reference, have you seen how the product management works in Language engineering, Visual Editor/Parsoid, Mobile, E2/E3.....? [18:47:46] or how it worked for admin tools? [18:47:51] sumanah: yes, yes [18:48:04] OK. so, I really don't see why that same model can't work for Ops [18:48:19] I'm willing to hear arguments but none of yours have been compelling :) [18:49:26] andre__: ^ see above for some examples by Nemo_bis of some bugs that could probably use some more attention from you in the short term, until we get some help for you [18:49:45] (such as volunteer bug triagers and product advisers/managers) [18:49:49] 22622 actually can't use any help [18:49:54] it's moving a bit now [18:50:09] Nemo_bis: don't be so binary :-) [18:50:16] maybe it's just your phrasing [18:50:34] 'can't use any help' is probably false; 'doesn't need as much help as the others mentioned' is probably true [18:50:52] noo that bug is damned [18:51:10] aka nobody knows OTRS well enough [18:51:20] but now we have a volunteer who'll test it, it seems [18:53:29] anyway sumanah, needless to say I'm always a very negative person, so maybe it'll work ;) [18:53:36] (i'm not saying the contrary) [18:53:49] (just that e.g. I'm sure I can't help with that method) [18:54:52] yeah, I know how skeptical you are, Nemo_bis [18:55:22] it would be nice if you could try to cheer this a little :) [18:55:32] sumanah: oh, I've already improved [18:55:41] then, I hereby request even further enhancement [18:55:59] product: Nemo_bis component: mood/attitude priority: enhancement [18:56:13] ;-) [18:56:13] I'll send your request to the PM for mood [18:56:16] hahaha [18:56:23] when I'll find a volunteer for the position [18:56:32] * sumanah flees :) [19:09:55] deploy will be late today [19:10:59] Reedy: how late? [19:11:17] (roughly?) [19:11:19] still well within the window [19:11:25] okee doke [19:21:32] @Serveradmins: Request for Comment http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech#Artikel-Feedback-Tool-Cats_in_InitialiseSettings.php [19:23:36] use the category [19:23:45] like enwiki does/did [19:24:10] there is no point adding hundreds of lines to a config file [19:24:37] ok, thanks [19:25:50] use a flagged bot with a hidden category to save spamming recent changes [22:03:09] Is it possible to grep the database to find videos which failed transcoding? [22:03:27] example video, which failed: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Jacks_Blowhole.ogv [22:04:18] McZ: it's a holiday weekend... [22:04:28] worst case ask again early next week [22:07:13] k