[00:00:11] most of the time the correct response will be cached [00:03:04] Yeah, that's weird too, because we force https on donate. [00:06:22] binasher: Is this a new thing, or has this been in there for a while? [00:10:03] pretty sure it would not be a new thing.. maybe a year old or more [00:10:10] RoanKattouw would know better [00:11:13] I'm just hoping I don't have to backport anything to our payments branch. ;) [00:11:31] There is chat about how relative URIs are not recommended (by RFC 3986 section 4.2.) in the office, 3rd floor [00:11:48] Things like '//www.example.org' that render relative to the current protocol [00:12:30] marktraceur: They're not not recommended, it just says their usage is rare [00:12:34] *nod* [00:12:38] Thanks, marktraceur. I may have to send somebody down to crash: I'm in the middle of updating [something crazy]. [00:12:48] Which is a statement that was true in '05, and which we made false in '11 [00:12:52] RoanKattouw: but our feeds fail validation [00:13:04] RoanKattouw: the donate redirector is in apache [00:13:04] (maybe it's broken validator though?) [00:13:05] RewriteCond %{HTTP:X-Forwarded-Proto} !https [00:13:06] RewriteRule (.) https://donate.wikimedia.org%{REQUEST_URI} [R=301] [00:13:33] Nemo_bis: Because of protocol-relative URLs? Depends on how that feed is spec-ed [00:22:21] K4-713: is it possible the donate css files are getting included on non-donate.wikimedia.org pages? [00:22:40] pgehres: ^ [00:22:47] I don't know why they would be, but he might. [00:25:34] i guess it's more likely that certain browsers or bots aren't respecting the page protocol when requesting relative urls (as noted above) [00:26:56] binasher: most of the donate css is inline, fwiw [00:27:13] Not the stuff that was breaking, though. [00:27:20] Like... the skin. [00:27:37] true, i meant the donatewiki specific stuff [00:27:39] No, donate CSS != donate CSS [00:27:47] By donate CSS you mean donatewiki- specific stuff [00:27:58] By donate CSS we mean CSS served from https://bits.wikimedia.org/donate.wikimedia.org [00:28:07] The latter includes the skin [00:28:17] * pgehres is quite confused [00:28:24] :) [00:28:41] I'm getting used to being confused all the time. [00:28:44] OK it looks like you weren't actually confused to begin with [00:29:05] * RoanKattouw ceases his attempt to un-confuse FR-tech given that they're actually causing more confusion [00:29:11] *that it's [00:29:19] We cause confusion too. [00:29:28] Yes, true :) [00:29:29] But that's more of a hobby. [00:29:36] there isn't any CSS specific to donatewiki that uses RL [00:29:49] so, i can't imagine why it would be called elsewhere [00:30:16] banner CSS is inline and payments is a whole other bag of chips [00:30:45] RoanKattouw: it looks like there are 20 wikis with apache https redirects. i think i can implement the same in the bits varnish vcl_recv{}, and it should fix this as far as bits is concerned [00:30:56] Yeah, I'm still wondering why this was never an issue anybody brought up on payments. [00:31:40] binasher: Excellent [00:33:12] Uhh: Thought. [00:33:37] Could https have something to do with lousy banner load experiences for some people? [00:33:47] I mean, central notice is on RL now... [00:34:10] gn8 folks [00:34:20] If it's hitting HTTPS-only domains then maybe [00:34:24] binasher: Can you tell me who's using https? [00:34:49] * K4-713 crosses fingers for certain languages [00:35:02] Not any production wikis like enwiki [00:35:08] Darn. [00:35:08] Sorry, not any content wikis [00:35:19] Well, it sounded good. [00:35:21] HTTPS-only is generally the domain of private wikis such as officewiki [00:35:57] Although of course if you're fetching a resource that is on such a wiki (such as donate), it'd be affected [00:36:05] But I don't think this explains the metawiki weirdness [00:36:26] Yeah, probably not. [00:41:19] K4-713: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1930795 [00:41:23] https only wikis [00:41:54] Ah, yeah. Okay. [01:01:01] K4-713: RoanKattouw: i think this will do the trick https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/32676/ [01:01:13] but i don't want to deploy to bits right now [01:01:16] Looking at it already [01:01:26] Oooo. [01:01:35] so it should probably wait til tuesday :/ [01:01:56] That's okay with us. [01:02:16] Thank you for looking in to this. :) [01:02:24] no prob [01:03:30] um binasher btw, i remember a blog post by the chromium https guy saying if you wanted chrome to default to https for your domain, just let them know. chromium ships with an internal list, iirc. [01:03:34] let me see if i can dig it up [01:07:14] binasher: http://dev.chromium.org/sts [01:07:35] "If you own a site that you would like to see included in the preloaded HSTS list, contact " [01:11:50] not really relevant to the problem at hand but i just remembered it and thought it'd be useful [01:20:58] ori-l: thanks! yeah, the eff and twitter have actually requested that we default to https or go https-only [01:21:48] twitter has pointed us to their in-house https proxy written in scala that handles session sharing etc, and has offered to help [01:22:07] the main thing we're missing is hardware at the moment [01:22:55] and time to do it? :) [01:23:20] i think we're going to upgrade / replace the frontend cache servers with ones with more ram and cores, and run https proxies on each.. while currently we just have 4 nginx boxes proxying https in each colo [01:24:01] and also we need to decide if we want to attempt doing spdy or not [01:24:58] i don't think we'd actually want to do https only in the near term even if everything was in place [01:25:56] why do you say that? [01:26:01] I'm not saying the opposite, just wondering [01:29:44] paravoid: i guess the ability to shuffle traffic around is valuable for fixing stuff [01:30:14] paravoid: there are actually devices that don't support https, and there are governments that block it [01:30:16] whereas https outage == site outage, if we were on the preloaded hsts list [01:30:44] binasher: oh interesting [01:35:04] https only for logged in users would probably be fine. [01:36:25] yeah, that sounds ok [05:04:20] can someone please point me to where we define s: w: wikt: v: ... [05:04:44] It's all in the database, I believe... [05:05:03] obviously [05:05:37] AFAIK it's handled by the interwiki extension? [05:06:05] they have to be defined somewhere [05:06:14] THat doesn't answer the question, Jasper_Deng ::P [05:06:42] All I know is that they're kept in http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interwiki_table [05:27:34] Jasper_Deng: https://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/WikimediaMaintenance/dumpInterwiki.php?view=markup [05:28:20] * sDrewth thanks Snowolf [05:28:57] Although I don't consider myself a programmer, I actually understand what that script does [05:30:09] amazing [06:10:57] sDrewth: and our newfound knowledge is already coming in handy I think :D [06:11:06] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41955 [06:50:03] QueenOfFrance: isn't that related to the dbname/code ... https://en.wikisource.org/w/api.php?action=sitematrix [06:50:26] sDrewth: don't think so [06:51:09] the dbname and the code should have 0 repercussions on interwiki [06:51:17] there they rely on the "code" to know where to apply "local" [06:51:36] obviously not, as they are right later in the sitematrix [06:51:48] sDrewth: code doesn't tell you whether you are on a multilingual site tho [06:57:52] hmm in InitialiseSettings 'wikivoyage' => 'Wikivoyage', is there twice in wgSitename [07:49:06] InitialiseSettings.php is getting so long, and I can never remember the section tags, it almost is getting to the stage where it needs a table of contents [07:53:39] if we had a magic TOC in PHP, I'm sure someone would add __NOTOC__ to it in order to make us even more grumpy [08:07:53] sDrewth: I think it's a problem of being librarian-like (as wikisourcers) [08:08:38] people nowadays don't like or know how to use catalogs and indexes; google diseducated everyone, now only full text search is recognized as a tool to find information [08:18:45] __NOTOC_NOFUN__ [08:32:20] for every __NOTOC__ you add, a part of an OPAC (or even a library) dies [08:45:56] __NOWOMAN_NOCRY__ ? [08:51:12] __NOWOMAN__FORCETOC__ ? [09:14:16] Nemo_bis: even if there was just a summary list, so I could search for the correct bit [09:14:36] I ended up doing a find for "# wg" [09:16:11] now I am trying to work out how I find in the api who can add and remove groups [09:18:39] sDrewth: add and remove groups where? [09:19:47] should be https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Meta#siteinfo_.2F_si usergroups anyway [09:27:55] thanks [12:12:00] j^: About? [13:27:56] How often are the maintenance reports listed at Special:SpecialPages refreshed (excluding those where it states they won't be so)? [13:31:57] sDrewth: From http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Cron_jobs, it seems to be every three days or something (not sure if it is update-to-date) [13:33:20] hmm, enWS last run seems to be 31 Oct, so I am not sure whether the cron has failed (other wikis are later), or we have a wmf upgrade breakage [13:34:48] cool, can't find a small.dblist in the git repo, so it probably is out of date [13:35:24] not sure what to do with that statement [13:35:45] lol, just wanted to check if enws is in small.dblist [13:36:52] okay (/me just stares!) [13:43:11] Hydriz: you have to look at crons in puppet [13:43:30] sDrewth: matanya (I think) complained about this a handful times in the last few days [13:43:40] I presume lunchtime is over? :P [13:44:11] you got lunchtime? [13:44:55] nah, had dinner already, was waiting for Nemo to finish lunch [13:46:23] yes, just had coffee :p [13:47:03] hiya brion [13:47:41] howdy [13:48:12] brion: I think that after 12 yrs of work on this consumism-thing the plans are ready for implementation [13:48:25] :) [13:49:11] The voting open and anonymized ( everyone sees what everyone voted for information warfare resilience combined with closed and tuneable vote counting [13:49:36] this is made possible that there is no need to reach a consensus so a dissensus system is the obvious choice [13:50:00] no consensus? heracy!! [13:50:19] not an encyclopedia or election [13:50:22] :) [13:50:55] nice [13:50:59] everyone sees what everyone voted but everyone doesn't know who voted what just what everybody voted [13:51:25] Nemo_bis: so where do I go to check or get a check on whether the cronjob are runnign for enWS? [13:51:27] this way Consumium cannot be turned into some kind of machine from hell that no-one knows how to stop [13:52:16] *corrupt [13:52:57] then when paid trolls are detected the appropriate counter measures can be described as a set of rules for how the counting goes for each consumer [13:55:06] so the http://develop.consumerium.org/wiki/Voting is both 1) extremely resilient to information warfare and 2) protects the privacy of the consumer with the anonymization of cast votes [13:55:20] counter measures always makes me think of flares on an aircraft [13:55:51] Reedy: with heat seeking missile situation it is a wise course of action [14:59:51] Hi, if anyone's around, the Mediawiki e-mail system seems to be having some trouble. I just e-mailed myself on Commons and didn't receive any e-mail, even much later. I had someone independently e-mail me at the same e-mail address and received it immediately. I didn't receive anything in spam either. [15:00:03] This is also preventing me from receiving password reset mail. I'm not sure what's going on. [15:01:28] reedy@fenari:/home/wikipedia/common/php-1.21wmf3$ mwscript showJobs.php commonswiki [15:01:28] 38207 [15:01:42] User emails are done straight away [15:01:50] I would've presumed that password reset emails were too... [15:02:00] I know enotif aren't done till later [15:02:08] Yes, I normally receive them immediately. [15:02:35] Okay hmm [15:02:42] I just changed my e-mail on Commons and it's working now. [15:02:54] It appears that my upstream e-mail forwarder is dropping mails silently. [15:03:00] At my moonflare.com domain. [15:03:04] Not a WMF problem, sorry [15:05:52] Ah, good to know [15:05:54] Saves me digging [15:10:05] Betacommand: do you have all the necessary information for the dumpgenerator? [15:10:15] or do I still have to do something [15:12:31] Nemo_bis: I just need time to sit down and write it [15:13:28] Betacommand: ok, good to know [15:19:07] Betacommand: Can you fork the repository on GitHub and submit a pull request later, so that it facilitates easier code reviewing later? [15:19:48] Hydriz: I am just creating a new script to replace yours [15:20:03] thats good :) [15:20:16] are you going to commit directly to the repository? [15:20:52] Nemo_bis: We should get emijrp to migrate to Git :) [15:20:56] once I get your code figured out yes [15:21:05] okay, thanks! [15:22:25] Hydriz: your script uses regex to parse XML == evil squared [15:22:40] yeah, sadly [15:22:54] btw its not mine, its Emijrp's, if you know who he is [15:23:10] I do [15:23:34] If you are using XML use an XML parser [15:23:50] Reedy: FYI I switched to hosting my own e-mail forwarding and the problem disappeared, so that was all it was [15:23:54] with python json is the easiest format [15:27:10] I tried figuring out json, but gave up and decided to use XML elsewhere [15:28:15] Hydriz: if you use simplejson or any json parser it just creates an array you can then work with [15:28:39] but in anyway that you are more comfortable with, just do it [15:28:50] we can always improve things later :) [15:29:15] Hydriz: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=general|namespaces|namespacealiases|statistics&format=jsonfm [15:29:30] thats an example of json [15:29:48] but when we export a page, we are going to use XML, right? [15:30:40] Hydriz: the resulting file will be a standard xml dump file [15:30:54] ah, thats good [16:03:20] Hydriz: can I get a list of some of the older sites you are backing up? [16:03:35] its all available in the repository [16:03:41] see the lists directory [16:03:47] listofwikis [16:04:47] Betacommand: No, see the lists here https://wikiteam.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/batchdownload/taskforce/ [16:33:38] hiya Hydriz [16:33:44] hi jubo2 [16:34:00] big tnx for backing http://develop.consumerium.org/wiki/ in teh archive.org [16:34:26] For 10 yrs it was just me and my precautions to keep from data loss risk [16:34:48] Twice we had a "nearly missed" situation of corrupt back-ups [16:35:48] The first one was that someone/something was able to write over 512 byte keys into MySQL4 and then when trying to import it fails with "too big key" [16:36:37] Is anyone migrating wikivoyage right now? [16:36:44] Switching to a newer POSIX compliant system with MySQL5 sorted that one out [✔] [16:37:46] then there was the incident of corrupt dump that was missing tables [16:38:29] that about concludes Consum(er)iums moments of near miss at catastropicalicious data loss :P [16:40:22] Hydriz: so it's a real weight off my shoulders that should all my copying efforts fail in a cataclysmic failure the http://archive.org would still have saved the 10 yrs of work on the tsydem :D :D [16:40:46] jubo2: Hang on a minute, I am preping the new Wikivoyage addition right now [16:41:10] * jubo2 has no clue what Wikivoyage is [16:41:35] its a travel guide [16:42:46] http://wikitravel.org + http://DBpedia.org + Wikidata + http://translatewiki.org == wiki pleasantness [16:42:56] :D :D [16:43:04] Hydriz: fork of wikitravel ? [16:43:15] somewhat [16:43:18] Hydriz: how come someone want to compete with wikitravel.org ? [16:43:27] could be a spork. [16:43:30] P-; [16:43:31] not compete, bah its a long history [16:48:20] Hydriz: We need to be able to produce a system where everyone sees what everyone voted but that not everyone can know who is who in the votes.. This presents the problem of whether to have unique pubilcly available keys ( like a "one-way" a hash function represented as a Base-36 encoded string or to try to do away without any permanent keys but this shit is way beyond my computer scientical abilities.. [16:49:01] I do not computer scientize or engineer, this is a shortcoming [16:49:53] So.. we.. need.. a.. CTO.. but we cannot afford to pay anyone [16:52:57] so we make a system that offers "freedom to disappear" not a system that is stalked by secret programs logging non-publicly available information into some secret database ( which is possible if the design has flaws ) [16:55:39] the most non-brainsane thing for the consumer would be to give all the stuff the marketing researcher wants to collect would be to hand it all over à la Sugarmountainlandia [16:59:56] Hydriz: I've been thinking of registering wikilocal.org and use that as an instrument in marketing the Consum(er)ium effort [17:00:11] jubo2: Rule of thumb, just do it :) [17:01:14] Hydriz: I pay 12€ / yr for the usual TLD domains, but I'm so happy with my registrar that I don't mind some people getting $9.95 [17:01:25] I luvv my registrar [17:01:50] lol [17:01:55] both servers are in .fi coz gotta get sued in Finnland if get sued [17:02:15] but registrar is ... spam follows .. http://gandi.net from France [17:02:50] Hydriz: I remember 2004 autumn and jimbo PM'ing me threatening with court action on basis of libel [18:59:28] ah, http://de.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Hauptseite has the same problem with news: protocol as aiowiki [19:20:30] nighty o/ [20:53:48] csteipp_afk: hey [20:54:34] csteipp_afk: I just modified https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikivoyage%2FBeta_notice&diff=4507551&oldid=4487444 , could you update the sitenotice on frwikivoyage? I dare not do it using my steward tools ^_^ [21:16:13] hi [21:17:33] if I revoked the user's autoconfirmed status using Abuse filter - how can I give it back? [21:18:00] Base: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/tools [21:18:14] (on your wiki, ofc) [21:22:19] thank you! and one more question - I cant see option of revoking autonfirmed flag @ukwiki and sysop say that cat see too. I can see such @ ruwiki. And I can use it @ukwikiq where I'm sysop. What is reason why there is no it @ ukwiki? [21:22:50] I think it's restricted [21:24:22] by who and from who? [21:24:43] extension settings [21:25:03] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:AbuseFilter#Configuration [21:25:55] $wgAbuseFilterAvailableActions ? [21:26:11] and $wgAbuseFilterRestrictedActions [21:26:46] Wiki communities have to make a request on bugzilla to be allowed to block autopromotion [21:28:52] but ukwikiq did not do such request as far as I know [21:29:10] hence it's unavailable [21:29:32] Jasper_Deng, according to him it is available.. [21:29:38] yes [21:29:50] it available at ukwikiq [21:30:18] I see [21:30:24] ukwikiq has no entry in http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=abusefilter.php [21:31:07] and the default settings seem to not disallow autopromote [21:31:32] http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=abusefilter.php [21:33:43] so this option should not be available there? [21:34:01] or what? [21:34:16] it actually /should/ be available by default [21:35:48] so why there is not it @ ukwikip? [21:36:19] Base: because ukwiki has an entry in the config file excluding blockautopromote [21:36:22] http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=abusefilter.php [21:36:51] yeah but why? [21:36:57] idk why [21:37:10] (also, weren't you desysopped last summer? [21:37:11] ) [21:37:31] I was desysopped 1october [21:38:10] because I was fighting with political POV banner at sitenotice [21:38:57] surely you knew that being sysop gave you no premise to override the community's decision, did you? [21:39:56] I sure that community's decusion was overriding 5 pillars rule [21:40:13] Still, consensus is consensus [21:40:13] You realise that the community can decide to do that, right? [21:41:01] and that wheel warring is never OK [21:41:45] Our community is not good enough. but it is flood now, I'm here to ask about Abuse Filter [21:41:57] yeah wheel war is bad [21:42:08] if you aren't sysop, why are you asking? [21:42:23] but I was sure that I have to do everything that I can [21:43:00] Oh we have just 25 sysops half of who is inactive [21:43:15] that's quite a lot, some wikis don't have any [21:43:45] If wait to thay will do tmth I will wait very long time. It is better to do it myself [21:44:02] Is that wiki has 400000+ articles? [21:44:07] *wikis [21:44:18] no [21:44:59] so not a lot [21:45:00] Base: since you can't modify abusefilters, why are you asking? [21:45:24] I can ask sysops to modify [21:45:41] if I say what to do, O think thay will do [21:45:46] *I think [21:46:09] There must've been consensus to opt-out of blockautopromote, so you'll have to talk to your community first. [21:46:11] but most of them need manual how to do [21:47:48] Yeah I'm going to start discussion at one of [[uk:Вікіпедія:Кнайпа]] 's parts (our forum) [21:48:15] When the community says yes, you may file a request at bugzilla.wikimedia.org, but not before [21:48:57] And I also interested because I was testing filter at wikiq and I was surprised that there are more options then at wikip [21:49:30] (I g2g) [21:50:08] yeah. Now recalling that I had to start discussion to change logo in ukwikiq where is just about 3 active people :D [21:51:09] ok bb, thank for answers. Sadly that everyone knows about my abuse [23:02:45] Elfix: Translations updated! [23:03:53] Hi. There is a serious problem with the API and action appendtext in user talk namespace at Commons. [23:04:42] Despite no one is editing it throws an edit conflict. [23:06:26] rillke: Only user talk and only on commons? [23:06:39] I saw a recent bug on edit conflicts? [23:06:45] check bugzilla [23:07:46] My script tried 10 times (with a timeout inbetween) to edit my user talk page. [23:08:02] Don't know whether it happens elsewhere. [23:08:21] csteipp_afk: thanks! [23:08:53] But the Auto-Error-page and user feedback tells me that it is not only me. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Gadget-AjaxQuickDelete.js/auto-errors [23:23:44] today is low speed of reading text of page [23:23:50] thow api [23:24:02] (or action raw (idk)) [23:24:08] @ukwiki [23:24:14] … [23:41:40] Is it normal that I see «This is the user page for User:Nemo bis. If you are not User:Nemo bis, please do not create this page.» on en.voy? [23:42:14] @editconflicts Reported at [[bugzilla:41990]] [23:42:17] Sounds familiar [23:43:05] It turned out being a problem when trying to edit through a redirect. [23:43:35] sigh, at least a dozen preferences to change on every wiki [23:43:38] default are so horrible [23:43:56] Reedy: why does it.voy has a default of 50 edits for RC etc. while en.voy has 250? [23:44:03] I have no idea [23:44:04] Good night everyone. [23:44:08] Presumably copied from their old config [23:49:08] filing a bug [23:52:50] oh, no, my fault, I looked at the wrong place