[00:01:40] hey guys [00:01:48] I'm running something on the toolserver DB [00:01:53] and I got the textual result "DB://cluster22/49688457" [00:01:58] how can I get access to that data? [00:19:49] Magog_the_Ogre: not from the toolserver. maybe API [00:20:11] yah I have brooke helping me at #wikimedia-toolserver [00:20:15] Magog_the_Ogre: you should probably paste the query that gave that [00:20:17] good [00:20:30] somehow I never figured out you can't get page text from the DB :9 [00:20:32] :( [00:25:37] Oh, sorry. [00:25:39] I got distracted. [00:25:59] jeremyb: It's not an error, it's just a pointer to a place where Magog_the_Ogre doesn't have access. [00:49:34] PHP fatal error in /home/wikipedia/common/wmf-config/CommonSettings.php line 812: [00:49:34] require() [function.require]: Failed opening required '/home/wikipedia/common/php-1.20wmf7/extensions/Cite/Cite.php' (include_path='/home/wikipedia/common/php-1.20wmf7:/home/wikipedia/common/php-1.20wmf7/lib:/usr/local/lib/php:/usr/share/php') [00:49:38] on test.wikipedia.org [00:51:29] brion: fenari:/home/wikipedia/common/php-1.20wmf7/extensions/Cite$ ls -al [00:51:30] total 20 [00:51:31] drwxrwxr-x 2 tstarling wikidev 1 2012-07-10 00:47 . [00:51:32] drwxrwxr-x 124 tstarling wikidev 4096 2012-07-10 00:47 .. [00:51:40] !log test.wikipedia is broken loading Cite.php [00:51:42] brion: the directory is empty [00:51:47] Logged the message, Master [00:51:53] i'm guessing this is because of 23:53 Tim: deleting and recreating php-1.20wmf7 to test a script [00:52:00] TimStarling: ^ ? [00:52:26] yeah, it's not done yet [00:52:52] the wiki does say in big letters that it may break at any time, right? [00:53:08] heh :) [00:53:22] well i'll leave a bugzilla entry for now [00:54:37] brion: it's not just Cite [00:54:57] it'll take about a year for submodule update --init to complete [00:55:09] so if you really need it working I'd better revert it to 1.20wmf6 [00:55:44] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38272 <- go ahead and close this when y'all are done. [00:55:49] one way or another [00:55:49] ok [00:56:02] i'll just upload my tests elsewhere for now :D [00:56:10] did you know that cloning core.git pegs the server CPU at 100% for 5 minutes? [00:56:45] that does seem a bit extreme [00:57:02] churning all those bits [00:59:01] TimStarling: what if you nice it? [00:59:17] it'd still eat that cpu, just be nicer about giving it up [00:59:42] * TimStarling reads gerrit source while he's waiting for it to complete [01:00:16] TimStarling: I think that is usually disk related [01:00:45] disk shouldn't eat cpu time, that should be wait time... [01:00:46] related to repacking and such [01:00:55] repacking yeah i can see that eating lots of cpu [01:01:57] brion: plus I think git-upload-pack buffers in memory [01:03:02] note that it's not actually git, it's jgit [01:03:08] ah [01:04:06] jgit! now we can blame java [01:04:28] it's probably some sort of busy wait [01:05:12] or a crap poll implementation or something [01:06:07] TimStarling: is it in the MyersDiff class by chance? [01:06:48] don't know [01:06:49] Can you do a top -H to get some thread dumps [01:07:39] TimStarling: I was just looking at http://code.google.com/p/gerrit/issues/detail?id=487 [01:08:12] it's finished now, but I have some ps -lL output from earlier if you want that [01:08:44] http://paste.tstarling.com/p/FVIFgS.html [01:08:52] TimStarling: thanks! [01:09:09] see, I found the thread that was using CPU, it was the only one that wasn't in the kernel [01:09:29] then I straced it [01:09:49] http://paste.tstarling.com/p/mpsHUT.html [01:09:49] TimStarling: so that looks like a busy wait issue [01:10:19] I wonder if the leap second issue has been fixed on this server [01:10:29] TimStarling: wait is this on NFS? [01:10:47] no [01:11:37] TimStarling: hmm [01:14:07] TimStarling: what version of Ubuntu is this on? [01:14:33] lucid [01:15:03] I'll test it in a minute after running date -s, just to rule that out [01:15:35] TimStarling: so is the main Java thread that's CPU bound? [01:16:41] TimStarling: what does garbage collection look like can you try a: jstat -gcutil [01:17:38] TimStarling: also do we have parallel GC implicitly enabled? [01:18:35] * preilly is just trying to help [01:18:44] * preilly feel free to tell me to shut up [01:23:20] sorry I just wanted to finish this script and get test.wikipedia.org working again before I started on gerrit [01:24:12] TimStarling: no worries… that makes total sense [01:42:24] No localisation cache found for English. Please run maintenance/rebuildLocalisationCache.php. [01:42:27] on test.wikipedia.org [01:43:42] !log test.wikipedia.org broken again, "No localisation cache found for English." [01:43:52] Logged the message, Master [01:44:01] !log running rebuildLocalisationCache.php for testwiki [01:44:08] Logged the message, Master [01:44:13] \o/ [01:44:41] Original exception: exception 'MWException' with message 'TrustedXFF: hosts file missing. You need to download it.' in /home/wikipedia/common/php-1.20wmf7/extensions/TrustedXFF/TrustedXFF.php:55 [01:44:44] !log on manganese: ran date -s "`date`" to make sure that isn't the cause of the high CPU usage during clone, it wasn't [01:44:52] Logged the message, Master [01:53:44] !log test.wikipedia.org fails with 'TrustedXFF: hosts file missing.' [01:53:52] Logged the message, Master [01:56:54] you know you can talk to me without the !log if you like [01:57:13] oh i figured you'd see if it you were still poking at it [01:57:28] and if not, then it'ld be logged :) [01:59:27] better now? [02:00:02] yay! thanks TimStarling [02:36:42] Hi all. Currently ru.wikipedia has localNotice about censorship lawsuit. While it blocks the whole wiki, it's fine as it can be disabled through cookies. [02:36:43] But one of admins also modified Common.css in the way that cannot be properly workarounded. (#bodyContent{display:none;}) [02:36:43] When I asked him to remove that css rule or change it to affect only the list of pages it should, he just blocked me for incivility. (I called his changes "shit") [02:36:43] No admins answer on #wikipedia-ru. Who should I ask to properly resolve technical side? I don't care about block - it's russian wiki after all. [02:42:39] Dex_: it doesn't sound like a technical issue to me [02:43:38] Doesn't it? I mean, it kinda brokes skin, but doesn't touch the content. [02:44:10] it hides the content, right? [02:44:16] yep [02:44:29] but that's not the issue [02:44:35] that was also done during the italian wikipedia protest [02:44:52] including CSS changes? [02:44:57] yes [02:45:50] But CSS rules can be changed to apply only to a few whitelisted articles, not to the whole wiki. [02:46:14] yes, but the question of whether you would want to do that is not a technical question [02:46:42] I suppose they do want to do it, the italian wikipedia did [02:48:09] But they didn't block edit function. It's supposed that you can easily remove notice if you want. [02:48:42] Dex_ wiki functions as community intends it [02:48:53] which is a protest at the moment [02:48:56] yeah, in the italian and english cases, editing was restricted [02:49:01] the "edit" stuff was specifically discussed to work [02:49:10] it seems sensible if you're going to make review so difficult [02:49:16] !log LocalisationUpdate completed (1.20wmf7) at Tue Jul 10 02:49:16 UTC 2012 [02:49:25] Logged the message, Master [02:50:07] TimStarling since you are here, is LUA going to be postponded into 2013? [02:50:15] I am asked to ask :/ [02:50:29] I don't know [02:50:58] you are at the management tho :/ [02:51:24] is there any way I can help? [02:51:40] I don't think so [02:52:00] * ToAruShiroiNeko flaps arms aimlessly then :p [02:52:50] you can test it and write feature requests, but that may make it come slower rather than faster [02:53:04] hmm [02:53:20] I just want the coders to know a good place to utilise its use [02:53:53] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:International_membership_templates/Year [02:54:07] its incomplete atm [02:54:51] idea is for the template to spit out international membership of a country given date and (optionally) list of orgs [02:54:57] is that why there's a screenful of errors at the top? [02:55:04] because it's incomplete? [02:55:11] those are the countries we havent coded in yet [02:55:12] yes [02:55:28] it generates an error because they lack a corresponding data template [02:55:34] intention is to also integrate this to infoboxes [02:55:49] so that intenrational memberships get updated wiki-wide [02:56:30] you can take a look at how the data template looks like: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Membership/Data/Brazil&action=edit [02:56:51] Sorry to interrupt, I understand that here isn't the proper place to disscus that stuff. Maybe any hints on where else can I ask? Or should I simply wait till the morning? [02:56:54] aren't you worried that the page will be too slow to render? [02:57:20] TimStarling I am not worried because I know such a list will break the wiki [02:57:35] we are doing our best to optomise but certain things are unnecesarily diffiuclt [02:57:54] idealy only few calls per page will be made with the current structure [02:59:00] script gets expensive due to special cases [02:59:37] Dex_: you should discuss it with the ru.wp admins, when they are awake [02:59:54] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Membership/Design/Table&action=edit [02:59:56] thats the code [03:00:00] well... part of it [03:01:43] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Membership/Design/Cell&action=edit [03:02:11] doesn't look like you're trying very hard to be efficient judging by that [03:02:21] you include that #switch for every cell? [03:03:06] it used to be far worse, it is under development. Its not close to being complete. Our main focus is the data (membersip dates) currently which isn't easy to acquire [03:03:34] TimStarling that switch is included for each cell that has a value corresponding [03:03:38] which is for each icon that shows [03:03:50] empty cells dont get that check [03:04:26] its hard because organizations are full of exceptions [03:04:33] so maybe 500 times [03:04:40] probably more [03:05:15] for instance Holy See is a permenent observer to UN and WTO and is the only country to do so [03:06:05] we were told a switch of 20 and 200 have the same effect I believe [03:06:11] {{Membership/Design/Table}} is the row template? [03:06:18] yeah [03:06:23] one of that generates the entire row [03:07:23] when used in article space we probably will never have a situaiton where all intenraitonal membership of every country is mentioned [03:07:55] navboxes [03:08:16] that's where these things usually cause performance problems in regular articles [03:08:23] but the template ends up being slow even for organizations like NATO, EU and AU [03:08:28] people write enormous collapsed navboxes [03:08:33] TimStarling indeed [03:09:04] navboxes are in 90 % just a substitution of categories [03:09:18] thats why we hope to switch to LUA :) [03:09:31] what is the difference between clicking on expand or on category link... [03:09:34] Danny_B|backup true but categories arent human readable quite often :p [03:09:54] ToAruShiroiNeko: lua won't solve the problem that people are putting way so many unnecessary things on page [03:10:07] navboxes do not belong to page at all [03:10:08] TimStarling, Dex_: ru.wp admins are awake [03:10:11] Wassup? [03:10:24] Danny_B|backup this isnt intended to be used in navboxes :/ [03:10:39] Dex_ says ru.wp is meant to be editable but the display:none in site CSS makes that a bit difficult [03:10:39] i was just commenting navboxes in general [03:10:46] I know :) [03:10:50] It's not meant to be editable [03:10:53] just making sure :p [03:11:04] Editing was explicitly disabled [03:11:11] why is ruwp not meant to be editable? [03:11:51] I see lots of edits [03:11:57] Because it's on a blackout [03:12:13] Danny_B|backup a protest [03:12:14] how did you disable editing? [03:12:20] i see now [03:12:20] TimStarling: title blacklist [03:12:30] * ToAruShiroiNeko thinks we need a "protest" extension maybe [03:12:39] tr community may wish the same too [03:13:50] i don't know, don't we declare to be apolitical? [03:14:03] we are unless it involves censorship of us [03:14:33] TimStarling on an unrelated note a while back ago during an update I reported a problem with tr.wikipedia regarding turkish characters and you promptly fixed it, can you link me to that? [03:15:07] https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D1%87%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA:Generous/common.css [03:16:21] wrong window sorry [03:16:27] vvv: I just edited my ru.wp user page [03:16:34] TimStarling: you're a sysadmin [03:16:39] You have tboverride [03:16:45] Probably [03:16:55] right, that would explain the edits I guess [03:17:00] in RC [03:17:24] Yes, admins still can edit [03:17:56] vvv: if you have it as sitenotice and one closes that, then he sees broken page, better to hide everything [03:18:35] Danny_B|backup: we still need the stuff to be displayed on whitelisted pages [03:19:15] an FYI can censorship pages display the copyright properly? [03:19:27] ie the CC license? [03:21:21] the enwp one was done with sitenotice, just without a close button [03:23:59] It was extremly simple to disable that one, if you are talking about SOPA notice. [03:24:29] And that simplicity was good. [03:24:59] TimStarling do you remember the tr.wiki incident I mentioned? :/ [03:25:14] maybe [03:25:29] vvv, so, why not to change CSS to apply to whitelisted pages only? [03:27:20] it had to do with the first character being one of the turkish special characters [03:27:24] caused weridness [03:27:55] yes, I remember that [03:29:13] I never informed the community on that, I feel I should :/ [03:41:49] [06:12] TimStarling: title blacklist -- This one? http://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Titleblacklist&action=history [03:42:39] yes [03:42:57] that's how it was done for it.wp also [03:43:23] for en.wp I think it was done in site configuration [03:44:14] It was done right after blocking me, thats why I didn't notice :D [03:45:12] Dex_ I'd block you for a klondyke bar [03:46:10] There are guys here who do it for free, thanks anyway. [03:48:41] my blocks are magically delicious [03:51:57] Then you should definitly give out a few 10-day teasers. [03:56:08] !log testing new scheme for LU involving not pushing out LU files to all apaches [03:56:16] Logged the message, Master [04:05:19] Dex_: There was a time when the Wikimedia syadmins would have viewed it as a problem of gravest importance if someone were deliberately blocking nearly everyone from editing (or even viewing) the site. [04:05:34] sysadmins * [04:05:46] Nowadays, some of them actively encourage disrupting the site for political purposes. [04:05:49] It's pretty sad. [04:06:06] There's video somewhere on Commons of people literally sitting around a room cheering at the site going down. [04:06:12] Wikimedia Foundation staff. [04:06:26] Y'know, in the name of spreading free educational content. Or something. [04:17:18] Can't find that video. Do you remeber name or something? [04:18:12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Wikipedia_Blackout_SOPA_January_18,_2012.theora.ogv [04:21:15] TimStarling so... could you link me to that past fix? [04:22:52] Brooke, thanks, I'll add it to the Cleanternet folder. The file is a little bit broken btw. [04:33:45] I don't have a link handy, you can use git blame [04:36:13] I dont know how to search if you can link me to the page I can try [04:36:37] I dont believe it was ever on bugzilla [05:01:06] !log on fenari: running git submodule update --init in /var/lib/l10nupdate/mediawiki/ [05:01:14] Logged the message, Master [06:06:02] !log removing php-*/cache/l10n/l10nupdate* and running scap with the new version of scap from I8bcd2817 [06:06:10] Logged the message, Master [06:14:17] !log tstarling Started syncing Wikimedia installation... : [06:14:24] Logged the message, Master [06:32:41] !log tstarling Started syncing Wikimedia installation... : [06:32:49] Logged the message, Master [07:41:40] !log tstarling Finished syncing Wikimedia installation... : [07:41:47] Logged the message, Master [07:46:49] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [07:46:56] Logged the message, Master [07:49:36] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [07:49:44] Logged the message, Master [08:10:41] hello [08:37:38] Hi all. [08:39:04] TimStarling: Morning. Is there anything else left to do, or is everything sorted now? [08:49:39] * Reedy wonders what tells the apaches to install tidy [08:50:47] I think ru.wiki issue is handled if thats what you are asking [08:51:18] Nope, about localisation update etc. thanks though [08:52:59] ah I dont know about that [08:53:05] there is an issue maybe you can help with [08:53:17] what is "git blame" ? [08:53:59] same as svn blame [08:54:07] link? [08:54:09] tells you who changed a line last [08:54:20] I am trying to find an issue that was fixed for tr sites [08:54:41] a bug that caused links to be rendered incorrectly if the first character was one of the turkish special characters [08:57:23] I suspect that likely won't be easy to find [10:05:34] !log reedy synchronized wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php [10:05:42] Logged the message, Master [10:10:33] !log reedy synchronized images/sul/ 'crushed' [10:10:40] Logged the message, Master [11:45:45] Reedy: hello :-) I am heading lunch and added you as a reviewer to https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/14099/ ( add the labswiki document root in mediawiki-config ) ;) [11:57:59] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [11:58:07] Logged the message, Master [12:02:08] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [12:02:15] Logged the message, Master [12:03:54] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [12:04:02] Logged the message, Master [12:10:05] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [12:10:15] Logged the message, Master [12:11:18] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [12:11:26] Logged the message, Master [12:30:27] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [12:30:35] Logged the message, Master [12:41:45] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [12:41:52] Logged the message, Master [12:53:49] !log deploying favicon.php test alias [12:53:56] Logged the message, Master [12:54:28] why does /home/wikpiedia/conf/httpd have both .svn and .git? [12:54:49] It's not been (fully) migrated to git [12:54:51] but it has a git repo [12:55:43] so which one am I meant to use? [12:55:57] svn for the moment [12:56:54] ok [13:03:13] Nikerabbit: where's robots.php? [13:05:21] why are you asking Nikerabbit? [13:08:10] He logged a bug about it https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38274 [13:13:08] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [13:13:15] Logged the message, Master [13:13:16] I just committed a change to it [13:13:43] it's still open in my editor, I can fix that bug [13:14:39] Thanks [13:14:44] TimStarling: Hi :) I sent an email on ops list about the svn/git madness for httpd conf [13:15:28] who is responsible for it? [13:15:41] we did it a few months ago [13:15:48] the ultimate goal is to have everything in git [13:16:06] but we have no idea how sensible are those https confs and if they can safely be released to the public [13:16:16] so some of them are still tracked in svn for now [13:16:28] the ones that were publicly on noc.wikimedia.org have been migrated to git [13:16:37] though not really migrated since they are still in svn [13:17:15] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/favicon.php [13:17:22] Logged the message, Master [13:21:38] right [13:21:49] I think they're sensible enough [13:22:15] it's not like you can put private keys in apache configuration files [13:26:00] !log tstarling synchronized live-1.5/robots.php [13:26:08] Logged the message, Master [13:26:47] ohh [13:27:04] remembers me I need to hack robots.php to always send "Disallow: /" on wmflabs :-D [13:27:07] the ops team has been putting much more scary stuff into the public repo [13:27:19] google / ec2 bots killed the beta cluster several time [13:27:31] damn bots [13:27:31] Bing bot is worse than google bot :( [13:27:35] Bing* [13:27:41] * TimStarling uses bing [13:27:42] the EC2 cluster, I banned it at squid level [13:27:44] err I said bing, why did I read that as bling [13:28:07] google / bing etc honored the Disallow: / so far :-D [13:28:41] you want to know a funny bug with robots.txt that Nikerabbit hasn't found yet? [13:28:47] TimStarling: about the Apache conf, you could follow up on my mail in ops or sent another one. We might want to setup a second "private" repository [13:29:05] There's one china based bot that I can't remember the name of, which only checks robots on the first visits so if you Disallow: / after it's been once it just ignores it :( [13:29:18] http://en.wikipedia.org/robotsOtxt [13:29:48] that's what you get for not escaping dots in regexes [13:31:48] hah [13:32:23] I'm done for today, but my grand plan is to merge all the wiki docroots into a single directory [13:32:35] and do a bit of general maintenance on the apache config while I'm at it [13:32:38] such as unescaped dots [13:33:29] the main difference between the various docroots is the fact that each has a different favicon.ico [13:33:38] that's why we have one docroot per second-level domain [13:33:56] because that's the level at which favicon.ico changes (or at least it did when the system was set up) [13:34:26] so instead there will be a favicon.php which will stream out the relevant file based on the MW configuration [13:34:37] http://tr.wiktionary.org/test-favicon.ico [13:37:49] night [13:40:45] De-duplication of the lot would be great [13:41:38] It is good to see Tim cleaning the 10+ years old config :-] [13:42:15] Reedy: One step at a time :) [13:44:37] I see cowsay is installed on fenari... [13:45:20] cowsay moo [13:48:51] Reedy: while true; do ddate +%.; done [14:10:39] !log reedy synchronized hastidy [14:10:46] Logged the message, Master [14:54:43] any staffer available? [14:54:45] SULWatcher> Ori Livneh (WMF)@dewiki matches badword \b(?:WMF|office|foundation)\b: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Ori%20Livneh%20%28WMF%29 [14:54:55] is that correct? [14:56:27] sDrewth: lol, it's a known issue [14:56:48] is it true? [14:57:01] otherwise I will kill and persecute it [14:57:07] There was something on the staff mailing lists about that [14:57:14] Yeah, that's a legit staff member [14:57:17] which is why I am here asking [14:57:21] okay, thx [14:57:32] I will let stewards know [15:02:07] Reedy: Why does Ori have two accounts? [15:02:17] What's the other one? [15:02:22] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ori.livneh [15:02:36] Personal and staff account [15:02:45] Probably should link the two though, no? [15:02:47] Some people like to keep things seperate [15:02:55] Yeah, would be worth it [15:03:27] reedy, fwiw, they are not found at the foundation website https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?search=Livneh&title=Special%3ASearch [15:03:47] I might prod Maggie to nag someone [15:03:49] The staff and contractors page isn't updated frequently [15:04:08] http://wikimedia.7.n6.nabble.com/Welcoming-Ori-Livneh-td4975496.html [15:26:40] Reedy: isn't it guillom in charge ? [15:26:53] No. [15:27:01] given he had some flooding amusements recently .. [15:27:02] ohh [15:27:07] That page belongs to HR. [15:28:02] But Ori is indeed on the Staff page. [15:28:03] guillom: fine, we will have to poke them :-) [15:28:17] I have sent you a pic of me by Victor , should I send it to HR? [15:28:39] No, Victor should upload it to Commons, then anyone with an account on the wmfwiki can add it to the page. [15:41:49] will have to ask him to do so :-D thx! [15:41:55] or could you update it ? [15:41:59] upload it? [15:43:17] makes more sense for him to do it, for licensing stuffs [15:49:30] !log powercycling mw1008,mw1070,mw1073 [15:49:38] Logged the message, Master [15:55:50] notpeter: decom the gilman? [16:13:49] Guys: Just got a "Loss of session data" error. [16:15:50] just reload [17:48:36] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11125 [17:48:38] how odd [17:49:03] a bug from august 2007 is closed as wontfix :/ [17:50:48] ToAruShiroiNeko: there might be a workaround nowadays [17:51:37] ToAruShiroiNeko: I guess it is more like "we have not fixed it the way it was proposed in the bug" [18:15:30] I think my Commons watchlist is too fat to fit through the door anymore. When I do Special:EditWatchlist I get this: PHP fatal error in /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.20wmf6/includes/Html.php line 147: Allowed memory size of 134217728 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 12891852 bytes) [18:16:47] lol [18:16:51] how many pagtes do you have on it? [18:17:34] It was 887775 bytes in 17801 lines in Special:EditWatchlist/raw and I reduced to 850280 bytes in 17333 lines, removing 468 titles successfully. I didn't attempt to use Special:EditWatchlist until after I did Special:EditWatchlist/raw. [18:19:41]