[17:32:57] Hey everyone, the metrics meeting starts in 30 minutes or so. Could someone please change the topic to include the stream link? http://youtu.be/1mdnz0sqyPQ [18:00:28] i can haz metrics? [18:00:52] brion: Nope, you've had enough, we're cutting you off [18:01:25] i'm 0.8 metrics over the limit [18:01:44] good day everyone :) [18:01:45] brion: of 0? [18:02:05] friends don't let friends code on metrics [18:02:07] We should be starting in a couple minutes, I'm not exactly sure what we're waiting for [18:02:12] is there a hagout [18:03:04] spagewmf: The stream URL is in the topic, as ever [18:03:08] CC all [18:03:46] marktraceur, just hang tight on the youtube live stream at http://youtu.be/1mdnz0sqyPQ, correct? [18:03:57] Should be [18:04:07] marktraceur, thx [18:04:11] I've refreshed that page in the past, but I'm sure that's not necessary [18:04:52] we will begin the meeting in just a few... [18:05:26] There are a lot of people here :) [18:06:17] we are starting :) [18:06:29] aaaand 'ding' [18:06:47] audio comments please!! [18:07:32] * dr0ptp4kt claps [18:07:43] * Philippe claps [18:07:44] \mm/ [18:08:18] cndiv__: Audio seems ok here [18:08:26] thanks anomie [18:08:27] o/ [18:08:30] audio is good to me (watching via YouTube) [18:08:38] clap clap clap [18:08:44] one exists but i haven't seen the link spagewmf [18:08:44] hi everyone :) [18:08:55] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mdnz0sqyPQ&feature=youtu.be [18:09:56] 720p is new for Hangout on Air? [18:10:08] Sue talking now, we will be doing a bit of a dive into VE numbers (Erik coming up next for that) [18:10:10] Slides were razor sharp. [18:10:30] Not sure if the camera is 720p, too. [18:10:44] VE is an abnormal project. :-) [18:10:45] new mike is better [18:11:03] * siebrand raises hand. [18:11:05] * sumanah raises hand [18:11:13] * abartov raises hand [18:12:00] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wiki_feel_stupid_v2.ogv [18:12:05] thats the video [18:12:08] it is interesting that perl is what came to their mind :) [18:12:26] perl is way, way worse :) [18:12:28] perl is much clearer and easier to parse than wikimarkup. [18:12:56] https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-the-detroit-of-scripting-languages [18:12:57] * anomie semi-parses wikimarkup in perl [18:13:33] what Coren said [18:14:24] Perl is important; it inspired Ruby. :-p [18:14:48] * subbu loves Ruby [18:14:54] perl is the world's only write-only language :P [18:15:24] * Jamesofur doesn't love Ruby either ;) [18:15:32] cndiv__: The video is weird today. Seems a little dark, and the camera keeps refocusing. Slides are good, of course. [18:15:44] akosiaris: you've never heard of APL evidently [18:15:46] TMTOWTDIJFCWTF [18:16:16] * Philippe waves to Sue [18:16:35] anomie: yeah, it does that sometimes and I haven't figured out why. There are no settings to change on the camera. [18:16:49] I think it has something to do with the projector light being so bright [18:16:53] * sgardner waves back to Philippe :-) [18:17:12] I'm in the market for a better USB camera [18:17:23] this is the top-shelf logitech one [18:19:07] it also seems to be struggling to choose erik or the screen to focus on [18:20:25] so "visual editor" in confluence actually does recognize when you start typing *some* wiki text and just do the right thing... [18:21:24] spagewmf, sure, I was just fondly trolling. I've used and loved perl for years. [18:21:35] see how dark it gets when I turn the camera towards the screen? bah. [18:21:39] some have asked about that manybubbles , the question of course is where the line is because trying to keep up with that kind of cross compatibility can be an incredibly large hole. [18:22:17] abartov, me too, but never loved it :) [18:22:24] I'm sure it can be. they have a pretty limited list, I think. stuff like typing "*" drops you into bold mode. [18:22:28] manybubbles, it is complex technically to do the right thing for mediawiki wikitext because its complex ... because what happens when you close a table in the middle? or use a templae that closes a table? [18:22:33] Jamesofur: IMO, you'd win big by "just" supporting [[]]. [18:22:56] Coren: not my department ;) I can certainly understand both reasons atm though [18:23:04] cndiv__, is the currenet camera 720p? [18:23:07] current* [18:23:09] I think you have to be super careful what syntax you do magic for, but you can do some magic, I think. [18:23:15] That was a generic "you", not a directed one. :-) [18:23:15] Thehelpfulone: it's actually 1080 [18:23:19] * Jamesofur nods :) [18:23:22] :-) [18:23:26] cndiv__: is it better if you zoom in on Erik? (and if he moves around a bit less?). [18:23:29] * jorm yawns. [18:23:32] * Jamesofur corrects Coren's you to a we [18:23:35] Bence: no zoom on the camera [18:23:37] it's a webcam [18:23:42] needs to be usb for google hangout [18:24:00] at least the screen casts are really sharp.. [18:24:21] cndiv_: I feel like some of the good 'normal' digital cameras have ways to connect via usb now for youtube users/google etc [18:24:24] how many people are on hangout atm? [18:24:31] Jamesofur: I'm ops. We get none of the glamour, and none of the hate. :-) [18:24:41] 36 viewers [18:24:53] cool! [18:24:56] lies, you've seen the https threads right? ;) [18:25:07] check https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44498 [18:25:46] James_F, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest?veaction=edit [18:25:57] someone can tell erik that :) [18:26:02] Look at Lists of monuments for these constructs ;-p [18:26:28] and that is why building the search index is slow.... [18:27:09] cndiv__, what about http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Widescreen-Calling-Recording-960-000764/dp/B006JH8T3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375381613&sr=8-1&keywords=Logitech+C920+HD+Webcam or is that what you have? [18:27:24] Thehelpfulone: that's exactly what I have [18:27:27] subbu: Thanks. [18:27:35] heh [18:27:58] I'm interested in finding a replacement... but haven't found anything better that will work with hangouts [18:28:05] so the "Our premium 20-step autofocus keeps the action razor sharp giving you consistent clarity and detail from our smoothest, most responsive autofocus yet." isn't quite as good as advertised? :p [18:28:13] list of things => wikidata queries [18:29:11] "rift hunter" [18:30:42] Questions? [18:31:47] Q: Any plans to A/B for which is the default for anons? [18:32:09] is there an option for powerusers to 'only use VE when it's an easy page'? (I think there's a similar option for Math) [18:32:19] that might convince some people to turn that one [18:32:21] *on [18:32:35] eewwww [18:32:39] "css leakage" [18:33:13] effeietsanders: problem is, often you've got a page that's 99% "easy stuff" and 1% "weird template construct" [18:33:38] if you're not changing that particular piece of the page, VE often works just fine [18:33:42] brion: I mostly mean easy in terms of being quick to load & no huge templates. [18:34:03] if you can't use VE to edit one sentence on a big page, you're gonna have a bad time editing [18:34:28] say that again erik [18:35:29] question: What is it with with goddam hide-bound knee-jerk reactionary whiners who can't adapt to having an "Edit" / "Edit source" *CHOICE* ?! [18:35:44] ha FCKeditor! :) [18:36:11] VE is on a good way :) [18:36:20] spagewmf: geeks fear change and respond badly to it often [18:36:22] spagewmf: change :) [18:36:29] spagewmf: http://xkcd.com/1172/ <- :) [18:37:12] spagewmf: One, right now it's inconsistent even across different namespaces on the same wiki, sometimes you have to click "Edit" and sometimes "Edit Source". And the section edit links are worse, because by the time you mouse over to see the difference you've already clicked. And VE is S-L-O-W to load, especially when you don't want it. [18:37:19] I do believe that having a __NOVE__ magic word would help tons. [18:37:32] LOL brion [18:37:34] Coren: we actually have a template that was created for it now I think [18:37:49] by a volunteer, but Erik mentioned it in an email to wikimedia-l last night [18:37:58] he needed termsane [18:40:24] http://tools.wmflabs.org/ptwikis/Editor_Visual:enwiki [18:40:47] Those edit summaries are great :-) [18:41:25] are # of reverts down as indicated on the metrics page? (http://ee-dashboard.wmflabs.org/dashboards/enwiki-metrics; click on Reverts; and set smoothing to 12 to see) [18:41:44] oh, that's an EPIC xkcd! [18:41:53] ^ [18:42:37] Coren, yeah, there's a disable VE hack. we should think about a better way to do it. wanna think through some edge cases and send a proposal to wikitech? [18:42:46] DarTar: ^ see subbu's question, do you know if we think that's true? [18:43:04] "First of all, we'd like to thank the VE team for taking most of the heat away from Echo" :-) [18:44:31] How many notifications are sent a day, on on which wikis? Are any user groups excluded from receiving notifications by default and why? [18:44:45] (I'm 40 seconds behind, so maybe some of these questions are already answered) [18:44:54] Jamesofur, subbu: we'd need to fit a regression to answer that question and look at a longer chunk of data, did you see erik zachte's longitudinal stats on reverts? [18:45:09] there's a seasonal deep on reverts every year [18:45:23] in the summer [18:45:23] so that's as expected [18:45:51] similar to the dip in edits or more (I can imagine more, less people at school vandalizing) [18:45:52] Do we monitor if notification links in mail/wiki are clicked? [18:46:03] I'll ask siebrand [18:46:05] DarTar, no, i haven't see erik zachte's stats. but, interesting about seasonal dip. [18:46:18] looking up the link [18:46:26] siebrand: we do [18:46:38] on wiki only, we cannot on mail notifications [18:46:51] is the mic dying? [18:47:08] Bence: we just switched, is it better? [18:47:11] Bence: just switched mics due to interference [18:47:13] shoudl be better [18:47:14] yes [18:47:15] subbu, Jamesofur: http://infodisiac.com/blog/2013/07/new-edit-and-revert-stats/ [18:47:37] http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/EditsRevertsEN.htm for enwiki [18:48:01] DarTar: When you state "we cannot on mail notifications" you mean "this was not implemented as a feature" or "we are not allowed to do this because of the privacy policy", or something else? [18:48:10] the latter :) [18:48:17] something else? [18:48:24] what? :) [18:48:25] privacy policy restrictions [18:48:31] ^^ [18:48:38] That's not the latter, but the middle :) *grin* [18:50:03] maybe mentions should be on User namespace as well as User_talk ? [18:50:33] Project pages would be very important [18:50:59] it already works on project talk pages... [18:51:11] yo J-Mo [18:51:13] oh, maybe that's the 'ping' template [18:51:25] hey DarTar! [18:51:31] if the ping template works it should work the normal way too [18:51:35] the ping template just makes it easier [18:51:36] Yeah, but most "process pages" are project, not project talk. [18:51:42] yeah, that's very true [18:52:23] notifications work in Project (non-talk) space. [18:52:23] * jeanFred pouets guillom [18:52:34] you can edit on mobile right now! [18:52:38] I've been pinged on both WP:Teahouse/Questions and WT:Teahouse, IIRC [18:52:57] J-Mo, Coren: yes, notifications work in Wikipedia: space. [18:53:15] Ah, okay, that wasn't clear from the presentation. [18:53:25] thanks ragesoss [18:55:06] J-Mo, it looks like Template:Reply_to just adds a user link, it doensn't do anything special to generate a notification. [18:55:28] ahh, IC [18:56:18] I just edited on mobile for the first time! yay! [18:57:36] does Mobile editing use VE? [18:57:57] spagewmf: not at the moment [18:58:31] I find mobile editor better than VE atvthis time to be honest. [18:58:47] I am excited! [18:58:50] o/ [18:58:55] hmm, the video feed broke down here? [18:59:12] i'm seeing now the beginning of the meeting :S [18:59:20] heh, three tabs: [Edit] [Edit source] [ Edit mobilely] [18:59:32] effeietsanders: works for me - try to reload? [18:59:32] anyone else lost video? [18:59:39] lost video? [18:59:41] Good for me [18:59:49] whew. [18:59:58] now something about program [18:59:58] spagewmf: if you click [ Edit mobily ], it sends a link to your phone :) [19:00:01] i guess it's back [19:05:23] >_< [19:06:08] jeanFred: ? [19:06:38] sumanah: nothing :p [19:06:55] was an evil looking smiley :P [19:06:56] O_O [19:08:15] ◔ᴗ◔ [19:10:52] evaluation is important because we make decisions about where to spend time and money _every day_ [19:11:19] :-) [19:15:36] vid stopped [19:15:39] oh, it's back [19:22:09] James_F doing something at WM other than putting out fires? A likely story! [19:22:23] Coren: :-) [19:22:24] any questions? [19:22:53] lunch \o/ [19:22:59] Thank you all :) [19:23:24] Don't tease the remoties with cream puffs! [19:23:35] thanks! [19:23:57] Brion 8 years! [19:24:15] \o/ [19:24:22] spagewmf: well there's Brion the White & Brion the Grey, since he left & returned..... [19:24:31] Obviously, all the folks with anniversaries must pay rounds of beer at Wikimania [19:24:32] :D [19:24:47] bye all [19:24:54] it's saaaandwich time for remoties [19:24:59] bon apetit [19:25:01] not for me. [19:25:06] And the longer they have been here, the more rounds [19:25:09] more like beer and more wedding crap. [19:25:46] just don't tell steven. [19:26:04] :D [19:26:18] And with this, bye everyone. [19:26:46] bye jeanFred, see you on commons O_O [19:26:57] 3~/wc [19:26:59] er :0 [19:27:02] * jeanFred feels stalked by Steinsplitter now... [19:27:13] :P