[00:28:55] Platonides: that was a Toolserver rule [00:30:01] "many years ago" [00:30:21] I thought it was carried over [00:49:12] !log tools.hatjitsu Switched to node10 container and deployed https://github.com/toolforge/tool-hatjitsu/commit/d04e1d7 [00:49:14] Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Tools.hatjitsu/SAL [07:14:36] d [15:27:50] I don't see the table named "text" in "aswiki_p". Is it unavailable? [15:28:16] I don't see any deprecation warning or any other document. [15:29:31] !help [15:29:31] If you don't get a response in 15-30 minutes, please create a phabricator task -- https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?projects=wmcs-kanban [15:32:53] [16:24:43] nokib: text tables are not available on the wiki replicas, you need to use the api for that [15:32:57] That's your answer [15:33:02] There is no deprecation warning as it was never there [15:33:37] the documents did not mention about it or I missed [15:33:57] You missed it, I think [15:34:06] https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Toolforge/Database#Unused_tables [15:34:11] >Some of the standard MediaWiki tables that are in use on Wikimedia wikis, are not available. The following tables are missing or empty: [15:34:15] >text table (mw:Manual:MediaWiki architecture#Database and text storage): Users can use the API, or dumps to access page contents. Access to search indexes of page content is tracked at phab:T109715. [15:34:16] T109715: Replicate production elasticsearch indices to labs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109715 [15:34:23] Ok thanks for confirmation. [15:39:51] I use some software which had to rename itself years ago but the license before the rename was OSI approved, but it has not been aproved since (it was literally a name change) - is this going to be a problem? [15:39:58] Provided this is the truth of course [15:43:07] https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Toolforge/Developing_successful_tools#Pick_a_license [15:43:26] I can't pick a license here, the license says derived works must be licensed as it [15:44:37] But again the old version was OSI approved and it's a name change [15:44:42] wxWindows -> wxWidgets [15:46:22] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WxWidgets#License [15:46:26] >wxWidgets is distributed under a custom made wxWindows Licence, similar to the GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL), with an exception stating that derived works in binary form may be distributed on the user's own terms.[8] This license is a free software license approved by the FSF,[20] making wxWidgets free software. It has been approved by the Open Source Initiative (OSI).[21] [15:46:35] Jesus [15:46:46] THE OLD VERSION - right, so "pre name change" - WAS ALREADY APPROVED [15:46:53] I know what the license says [15:47:02] There's no need to shout [15:47:07] The new version DOES NOT have an "OSI APPROVED" STAMP ON IT [15:47:11] There's no need to shout [15:47:14] Caps are for emphasis, try and read them in the same voice [15:47:23] No, caps are shouting on irc [15:47:55] [telegram] If it is not OSI approved, then it’s not OSI approved. [15:47:55] If you make your own convention you can try and force it on others sure, but I DECLINE TO CONSIDER THIS AS SHOUTING AND INSTEAD READ/WRITE IT IN THE SAME VOICE, BUT VISUALLY EMPHASISED [15:48:25] bd808: so that means it can't be used then? Even though it's JUST a name change, the license hasn't changed [15:48:36] https://newrepublic.com/article/117390/netiquette-capitalization-how-caps-became-code-yelling [15:49:11] Reedy: https://something-i-made-up/reasons-you-can-not-trust-links-from?net=freenode&name=Reedy [15:49:43] bd808: are you sending from Western Union? (telegram joke) [15:49:48] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_caps [15:50:02] https://opensource.com/article/16/6/irc-quickstart-guide [15:50:18] >ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED SHOUTING. PLEASE KEEP IT TO A MINIMUM. [15:50:30] Reedy: seriously man, drop it, you can find pages that say the world is flat, or the hand-gesture for "perfect" is somehow racist now or something - it doesn't mean either of those things [15:50:36] ok everybody, let's chill out a minute [15:50:45] Dresden: you too [15:51:09] MESSAGE RECEIVED ;) [15:51:14] But yeah it's just a word change [15:51:53] Dresden: is the license listed at https://opensource.org/licenses ? [15:52:22] ...Probably, the pre-name change has an OSI approved stamp, and at work I've been able to use it (which hopefully says something) [15:52:24] if so, then its ok for Toolforge projects. If not, it is not [15:52:26] The new version never was [15:52:46] That's unfortunate, I was hoping there'd be a bit of wiggle room [15:53:50] bd808: it IS listed on that page (UNDER THE OLD NAME) [15:53:54] wxWindows license [15:54:22] Dresden: then you can use a version of the software licensed under the old name [15:54:58] I can't because the name change was years ago, and the specific thing I've forked didn't exist pre forked, so it has always been under the wxWindows license, which is identical in every way except where one says "wxWindows" it says "wxWidgets" [15:55:10] *pre name change [15:55:33] So I want to develop the tool (I deal a lot with Mediawiki and I think it'd be useful to more than just me and the admins) [15:55:49] Well I've already developed it, you know what I mean, not just internal use [15:56:50] So ... bd808 TL;DR: yes its on that list, but under a different name..... see what I mean? I can't stress enough: it is JUST the name change, no other word is touched or changed or altered. [15:56:55] appended, deleted, ect [15:58:05] Dresden: https://github.com/wxWidgets/wxWidgets/blob/master/docs/licence.txt "wxWindows Library Licence" [15:58:15] Yeah so I've not forked wx [15:58:36] the license has not been renamed as far as I can tell? [15:59:04] ....I imagine you've found something that missed the update. The thing I've based this on (distantly - but still derived) explicitly says "the wxWindows license" then the text of that [15:59:23] Ah here we go bd808 [15:59:28] https://www.wxwidgets.org/about/licence/ <---"pending approval from OSI" [15:59:42] "wxWidgets is currently licenced under the “wxWindows Library Licence” pending approval of the “wxWidgets Library Licence” which will be identical apart from the name." [15:59:58] As I said the base for this was after the change, and is a tool that started out under the wxProject [16:01:21] I've just checked again incase it was a non issue bd808 yeah this thing definitely says wxWidgets, but this could be an accident (and it's supposed to be wxWindows) for all I know, no one really cares except for ... us [16:01:44] I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to talk me into at this point? https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Toolforge/Rules is pretty clear: "All code in the Tools project must be published under an OSI approved open source license" [16:01:46] But I figured because the "no non-OSI approved licenses" thing was not a legal requirement but a community one, that sanity would prevail and it'd be like "yeah ... that is basically approved" [16:01:50] Yeah [16:02:01] Sorry I should have been clearer [16:02:36] I tried to give you an out, you found an "official" page that says the out is invalid. :) [16:03:02] So we should just pretend we never saw that? [16:03:19] that which has been seen cannot be unseen [16:03:20] Sorry for the trouble BTW [16:03:30] Also ignorance is not an excuse [16:03:33] But yeah that's the situation [16:04:01] It is clearly in the spirit of the OSI-requirement, the point is to cultivate truly open source (by the OSI definition) software, which this does [16:04:44] Dresden: out of curiosity, how are you using a GUI toolkit to build a web service or bot? [16:05:02] I'm not talking about the GUI toolkit at all here actually (although I do love wxWidgets) [16:05:41] I took the source for a tool of the wxWidgets project (Which I use because I work a lot with wx) and used it to fix/help/do something with mediawiki [16:05:57] *nod* [16:06:41] Sorry about this [16:06:59] questions are fine :) angry exchanges not so much [16:07:34] and the "anger" may have only been perceived, not intentional [16:08:03] but reception trumps intent in most public spaces [16:08:24] It's too soon to be angry. I'm really hoping sanity will prevail as it's /clearly/ (CLEARLY) in the spirit of the rule and the rule is not legal requirement [16:08:42] I'd be slightly annoyed if this got in the way permanently. [16:09:19] I'm hoping it may take a week or two, but it'll be allowed or the wording will be changed to "or licenses which are differently named but otherwise the same as an OSI approved license *COUGH* wxWindows/wxWidgets *COUGH*" [16:10:01] 4 years ago Chase tried to get changes to the TOU approved, we are still waiting. [16:10:34] The license thing with wxWidgets has been pending for over a decade [16:10:39] so, no. not likely that the TOU is going to suddenly say "and any license that we can squint and decide should be OSI approved but is not" [16:10:59] You don't really need to squint, it's not changed in any meaningful way [16:11:14] and yet, that's not how contract law works [16:12:01] Well there's no need for that here, these are guidelines or rules, and the spirit is clearly not intended to reject this specific case [16:12:47] But yeah any ideas? No is fine, but it's something I can do to help and I owe a lot to mediawiki so... [16:13:38] Dresden: feel free to open a Phabricator task and make that argument. I can escalate it to Wikimedia Foundation Legal. But also, don't count on any change in the TOU as a result. [16:14:08] I can try, but yeah, I've touched on Wikipedia a few times, and I have realistic expectation [16:15:00] Specifically where am I putting it? (I've not touched Phabricator, I've shared some diffs with a few mediawiki devs really that's it) [16:17:00] Dresden: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/ -- add the tag "Toolforge" and add me (bd808) as a subscriber [16:17:16] BTW I really recommend wxWidgets/wxPython, event tables are great (over signals and slots, with callbacks everywhere - great for a hello world button, crap for a menu and a dialog) also it's native where it can be, some platforms lack like a calendar widget, so it brings one, but it uses standard where it exists (which is why I love it) eg standard calendar [16:17:19] will do [16:20:25] bd808: I'm creating an account but username I've tried exists and I'm making stuff up [16:20:27] "Oramol" [16:20:54] Nvm just luck [16:20:56] sorry [16:24:04] bd808: I hate to do this but I can't pass email verification [16:24:13] It's not showing up [16:24:40] 5 minutes now and I've asked for it to be resent [16:25:29] Oh course now 7 show up [16:33:27] bd808: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T260447 [17:04:42] !log tools.paws deleting instances "tools-paws-master-01", "tools-paws-worker-1005", "tools-paws-worker-1006", "tools-paws-worker-1003", "tools-paws-worker-1002", "tools-paws-worker-1001", "tools-paws-worker-1007", "tools-paws-worker-1013", "tools-paws-worker-1016", "tools-paws-worker-1017", "tools-paws-worker-1010", "tools-paws-worker-1019" T211096 [17:04:44] Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Tools.paws/SAL [17:04:44] T211096: PAWS: Rebuild and upgrade Kubernetes - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T211096 [17:09:38] !log paws backing up the old proxy config to NFS and deleting paws-proxy-02 T211096 [17:09:40] Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Paws/SAL [19:43:43] Hello, why there are no index in the replica databases? [19:43:51] See this https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Vfwp0mAF/ [19:44:13] rev_id should be marked as primary key at the very least [19:47:05] !log tools.lexeme-forms deployed 13282d5404 (Bengali verb updates) [19:47:07] Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Tools.lexeme-forms/SAL [19:47:44] Urbanecm note that those are views [19:47:56] I think the underlying tables *do* have indexes [19:48:16] although certain queries, due to the filters being applied, mean that indexes cannot be used [19:48:42] I do think the explain query used to contain the index through Platonides [19:49:00] yes, that's a bit odd [19:49:29] I think `select page_namespace, page_title, comment_text from revision join page on page_id=rev_page join comment on comment_id=rev_comment_id where rev_actor=48 order by rev_id desc limit 5;` runs for more than like 30 seconds, IMO it should be way faster [19:49:57] (I'm running that at cswiki_p) [19:50:19] maybe an update made the server no longer report PK on views [19:50:27] maybe [19:50:39] you may need one of the other rev views [19:50:53] revision_userindex maybe? [19:50:54] they don't report any indexes either [19:51:37] and it doesn't make any changes in query's speed [19:51:55] your query takes 11 seconds with revision_userindex [19:52:20] removing `order by rev_id desc` makes it complete almost immediatelly (which made me think it doesn't have any index) [19:52:20] the issue is that revision checks if the user name is hidden [19:52:55] i see [19:53:31] and that requires a full table check or something like that [19:53:48] :/ [19:53:51] I think revision_userindex skips that by not including those entries at all [19:54:05] yeah, not being able to view query plans hurt, too [19:55:14] thanks Platonides . I've created T260457 to confirm the indexes are in the underlying tables [19:55:15] T260457: Are there indexes in Wiki replicas? - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T260457 [20:28:50] I'm pretty sure there are indexes [20:28:58] Otherwise they would be completely unuseable [20:37:20] hi! [20:40:48] !help [20:40:48] If you don't get a response in 15-30 minutes, please create a phabricator task -- https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?projects=wmcs-kanban