[14:58:54] Hi. I've been looking into Wikibase and potentially Wikidata for use in WikiFur (a language family of wikis for furry fandom). We have convention-related data (dates, attendance statistics, geolocation, ticket prices etc.) used in lists, charts and a map that we currently maintain in separate copies on the relevant pages (and on one big Javascript array. >_<). [14:58:59] I'm wondering if using Wikidata for this and just installing the Wikibase Client on our own side is feasible, as described at https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:List_of_conventions_by_attendance#Separate_storage_for_semantic_data - perhaps some people here could give an idea of that from a technical and particularly policy perspective (we don't want to get into the same situation we had when [14:59:00] WikiFur was created in the first place - people deleting stuff we felt was useful, but which was not considered notable or reliable by Wikipedia editors). [15:00:57] Previously I asked about the possibility here that we could reference some items and predicates from Wikidata in our own instance but the response I got was that is infeasible at this time, and so I'm gravitating towards most or all of it being on Wikidata or on our own instance. [15:19:49] Hi, GreenReaper :) [15:20:02] * GreenReaper waves! [15:21:26] I'm sure having a Wikibase instance while having some entities connected to Wikidata will be a great intermediate solution :) [15:21:47] I actually need to consider updating wikidata somehow, but I'm not ready [15:21:55] It would be, however I am not sure how techincally feasible that is? [15:22:46] GreenReaper: Maybe you should contact Jens Ohlig for that, his email is jens.ohlig at wikimedia.de [15:23:08] Anyway, please tell me about your progress and decisions :) [15:23:16] Also it requires setting up a Wikibase instance. I'm technically able to do this, it just seems like it will have quite significant resources at least for the SPARQL search (Java etc.). [15:23:21] Sure, I'll drop him a line. [15:24:17] Cool :) [15:24:54] Soon there's also a Wikibase workshop in Berlin... https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikidataCon_2019/Attend/Side_events/Wikibase_workshop_Berlin_2019 [15:25:04] But perhaps it's too far from you (?) [15:26:21] mevodad: What do you want to do? [15:26:34] I am in the UK so I imagine the rioting at the border might be an issue, but I will take a look. ;-) [15:26:57] I mean, technically we will still be in the EU then... [15:27:05] abian: Well, I'm parsing out company board members, and there's not a ton of reciprocity in the data [15:27:26] i.e., a company will have a record of Person A being a board member but Person A won't have any record of association with that company [15:27:39] GreenReaper: Okay xD [15:28:12] I live in hope, just updated my EHIC for five years. ;-p [15:32:44] mevodad: Yeah, most data about organizations is in fact missing on Wikidata :( [15:33:47] and people! [15:34:00] The actual data is actually pretty valuable when it exists though [15:34:05] Including people as part of their organizations, yeah [15:34:13] should I consider updating from other sources? We parse crunchbase, too [15:34:14] Agreed :) [15:34:33] Hmmmm... if they have a CC0 license or similar... [15:34:41] I'm not sure, I could check [15:34:45] Okay :) [15:35:00] I figured ensuring reciprocity would be the first step, though [15:35:33] First of all it's necessary to ensure that the data will be updated regularly [15:35:55] So it's good to define ETL processes, or save scripts and procedures, and run them periodically [15:36:11] Well, that's exactly what we're doing :) [15:36:38] :D [15:36:39] We just coalesce multiple sources and I'm leery of forcing them to all say the same things sometimes [15:36:51] That's great [15:37:44] wikidata's data model drives me insane, though :) [15:37:48] BTW, please consider using https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3608 on European organizations [15:37:55] :) [15:38:15] oh, we don't care about the valuations very much [15:38:20] so pfffft, fie on thee! [15:38:28] But valuuuue! [15:38:37] (we only select companies with engrish labels, for example!) [15:43:34] The EU VAT number is used to avoid duplicates (or find and fix them) :) [15:44:04] We don't have many good IDs for companies either [15:46:48] Every country has their own. Sometimes multiple ones. For the USA you might have the EIN for example (employer identification number, used as a tax code). [15:46:55] Hmm, US companies have federal ID numbers, I wonder if wikidata tracks those [15:47:00] ... yeah, that [15:47:08] stop copying me before I say stuff, GreenReaper, thanks [15:47:18] Great minds... [15:47:26] :P [15:47:34] And poor ones. If I were you I'd start worrying :) [15:47:36] I'm not sure if we have properties for those [15:47:39] es multiple ones. For the USA you might have the EIN for example (employer identification number, used as a tax code). [15:47:39] [16:46.55] Hmm, US companies have federal ID num [15:47:43] But, if we haven't, let's propose them [15:47:47] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1297 even [15:47:58] Oh - I have a question. WTF is wikidata-sense as a data type? [15:48:09] But of course it picks up https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2397748 too [15:48:54] mevodad: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikibaseLexeme/Data_Model#Sense [15:49:44] oh, that must have been added VERY recently then [15:49:51] More or less, yeah [15:50:21] I ran across it in the data, went looking for it and didn't see it - that page should also have samples of the snaks in question, if only to help SEO [15:50:53] What do you mean? [15:51:49] well, I ran across it in parsing, because all of a sudden my codebase had an entity type it didn't know about. I went looking for it in the data model, and couldn't (or didn't) find it [15:52:35] This is part of the Lexicographical Data, which I think is separated from the general Wikibase Repository extension [15:52:55] Well, Extension:WikibaseLexeme [16:23:35] is there any way to access historic information for deleted properties? [16:25:14] GreenReaper: currently, AFAIK it’s not possible for a third-party WikibaseClient installation to access the Wikidata repo (the code requires direct database access) [16:26:03] Ah, OK. I did see you have an internal connection point for ... recommendations? But of course I understand that is not a model for external federation. :-D [16:26:15] hosting your own Wikibase might be better anyways, also to resolve the problem of Wikidata editors considering your information not notable [16:26:20] And maybe that was more for SAPRQL [16:26:55] there’s several ways to access the data (not sure what you mean by the recommendations tbh), but WikibaseClient doesn’t use them currently [16:27:05] (that’ll probably change at some point but I’m not sure when) [16:28:46] but to install any kind of Wikibase you’d also need a much more recent MediaWiki, 1.23 (https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Special:Version) is a pretty old line [16:28:47] Yeah. Reading Wikipedia's discussions of Wikidata usage, I was unsure of the exact practical level of difference between Wikidata's policies, or how that might change in the future (it seems there is a different culture). The data we would want to store is about real events. But they may be proposed real events, or they may be events with 12 people whose attendance is recorded on a [16:28:47] Russian-language group on VK.com, for example. Or attendance may be recorded with "GreenReaper heard this figure at the closing ceremonies". :-D [16:29:07] Yeah, that is one reason I'm looking at this for the future because we have been delayed with upgrades. [16:29:12] ok [16:29:14] I have to leave now, sorry [16:29:16] but good luck! [16:29:17] No problem [16:29:18] Thanks! [20:04:27] what does commons do if there are two things with a same name? (ie there is an ensemble called "calung" but also an instrument called "calung" i separate these on wikidata (and linked the right thing to the commons category wich is about the ensemble)) [20:04:57] but is it halal to create another commons category for "just the isntrument" so i cna link this to the wd entry? [20:05:58] (seems it's called "tjalung" in dutch https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Calung ) [20:10:18] (additionally if anyone is indonesian or knows any indonesian peoples who could help me by translating https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calung hat woudl be awesome ) [20:14:07] Hmm. Good question. Maybe it'd be Calung (musical instrument)? [20:14:10] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Category_disambiguation suggests so [20:15:52] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Musical_instruments is pretty big. [23:00:13] Hi, is it possible to specify calendar used for date-typed properties? [23:06:22] Looks like you want to use https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1480 with for example https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q51367591 [23:06:39] But I'm not an expert. ^^' [23:07:34] There are others like it e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q27055388 and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q26877139 - maybe there are more-commonly-used ones? [23:08:30] Well, in this case I know the calendar, and know that it does not correlate with Gregorian dates, being fictional. [23:09:50] Maybe you need an item that is "specified date in fictional character of [work X]"