[07:25:32] hello [07:26:05] Aren't there any user warning templates in wikidata? [07:45:03] No but we have tons of exclamation marks for constraint violations ;) [20:56:30] Hello there! I'd like some counsel on property consistency [20:58:49] Both university (Q3918) and it's superclass "higher education institution" (Q38723) relates to "higher education" (Q136822) using property "field of work" (P101) [20:59:29] This raises the warning: type constraint Help Discuss Entities using the field of work property should be instances of one of the following classes (or of one of their subclasses), but university currently isn't: [list that includes "organization"] [21:00:37] On the other hand, "primary school" (Q9842) relates to "primary education" (Q975085) with property "use" (P366) [21:01:11] Which one is preferable? [21:45:30] villas, that's a good question! I'm not sure that there's an answer. Modeling education is rather a mess, because the Real World (tm) is also rather a structural mess with respect to education :) [21:46:14] I tried to model just university degrees with some students this past semester: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_University_degrees and we found what an awful mess the real world is :) [21:46:24] ^ villasv [21:53:02] Oh yes, education is ironically a very hard ontology. I'm doing a similar work with Brazilian universities (lots of them missing, we have tons of institutions, some with literally hundreds of subsidiaries) [21:54:48] I found this issue because I wanted a query where I could tell for each "educational organization", if it's related to tertiary, secondary or primary education. But apparently tertiary education relates to the education stages in a different way than secondary and primary... [21:54:52] IMHO, [21:55:57] "field of work" is perfectly fine, even though it raises the constraint warning that it's meant for organizations. In the end, "university" is a grandchild class of "educational organization" and therefore "organization" as well [21:56:25] I'm actually always a bit confused about how those constraints work [21:56:30] And saying that "primary school" has "use [21:56:38] If it's a subclass of org it should work, even if it's 10 steps deep [21:56:46] And saying that "primary school" has "use" "primary education" is a bit weird [21:58:32] This property "use" is already contrived anyway, the example is that you "use" a "book" to "read". That's kind of backwards, you "use" "reading" (the skill) to interact with a book. [22:00:08] ^ reosarevok the constraint specifies that the thing should be an instance of "organization", not a subclass of one, which is also reasonable [22:00:41] IMO it's not - any subclass of X is supposed to also be X, isn't it? [22:01:01] Although I guess that might get crazy to calculate at some depth, so I get why technically it might not be done [22:01:17] But it leads to fairly confusing constraint issues [22:03:00] I think the reasoning is this: people can have a property "age", but subclasses of people can't, it must be an instance. [22:03:37] But it goes sideways because the class hierarchy of educational organizations exists precisely because they form groups that all share some property [22:06:07] But even the bit you pasted says "instances of one of the following classes (or of one of their subclasses)" [22:06:19] So I guess it goes up *some*, just not long enough [22:07:34] "higher education institution" is a subclass* of organization, so it can't have "field of work", but all of its instances would have "field of work" "higher education" [22:08:05] So it made sense to someone to also put "field of work" in "higher education institution", violating the constraint [22:13:01] In the end, "higher education" is a subclass* of "service", so IMO it should be something along the lines of "higher education institution" "provides service" "higher education". Does anyone now a good property for "provides service"? [23:29:08] Hi, there is an edit war in [[Colombia]] [23:29:09] 10[1] 04https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Colombia [23:29:57] 173.192.141.229 [23:30:02] can you block that ip?