[08:50:15] hello [08:52:32] hey [08:52:51] hi Lydia [08:53:26] I am a bit confused by the difference between instance of and subclass of [08:55:45] somehow it seems to me that 'A subclass of B' means 1) 'A instance of B' 2) 'A is a class' [08:57:16] i think i am not the only one confused as i see various usages of subclass of in wikidata [09:03:13] melderick: "instance of" means that it is a specific, individual item. Subclass means that it is a class that can have multiple instances within them [09:03:45] Queen Elizabeth II is an instance of a human. There is exactly one of her. [09:04:45] The line between instance of and subclass of can be blurry, depending on how strictly granular something must be to be considered an instance of something. [09:05:59] It's often disputed and no one really agrees. But you can generally think of a subclass as meaning "this is a category of things within a broader category" and instance as meaning "this is a specific, individual thing" [09:07:39] Example of the blurriness: is influenza an instance of disease or a subclass? Putting aside that there are several types of influenza, is it being a distinct type of disease enough to make it an instance, or can you only call it an instance of disease when it affects a specific person at a specific time? [09:08:30] Likewise, can you consider "The Bible" to be the instance of a book, or can you only consider a single copy of it (e.g. Lincoln's Bible) to be an instance? [09:08:51] yes [09:21:39] i see the same blurriness with 'titles'. Take, Q4917889 - Bishop of Kingston it is a subclass of suffragan bishop. I guess that's because there were several bishops of Kingston .. [09:22:08] I would have said it is an instance of suffragan bishop [09:27:01] jzerebecki: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/291878/ [09:28:31] melderick: as a rule of thumb, an instance is something that has a concrete time and place. everything else is a class. [09:29:09] melderick: If "Bishop of Kinston" is not a single individual, then it'S a class, and thus the subclass is the correct relationshiop. [09:30:00] a while ago, we had a diswcussion whether ethanol ist an instance or a sibclass of alhohol. turns out that, if you look closely, there are many ethanols (molecules!), so it must be a class. [09:30:08] it may be counter-intuitive, but it'S consistent. [09:31:10] daniel : yeah somehow it seems we have to use subclass if there are sub-sub-classes known ^^ [09:34:37] and yet we have many classes that have no instances/subclasses [09:35:36] And that's fine since documenting every instance of an ethanol molecule would be tedious and pointless [09:36:54] i guess [09:36:57] ^^ [09:37:56] harej : no need to document every, one would be enough :) [09:38:27] for making ethanol a class [10:48:04] I am going to stop Zuul / CI for half an hour or so to take traces [10:48:10] will recheck what has been skipped / missed [10:48:41] hashar: no problem, take your time. thx for notification [10:56:55] took traces, zuul is back :) [12:23:32] jzerebecki: kannst du mir n link zu marius' patch schicken? [12:38:47] DanielK_WMDE: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/292115 [12:39:02] jzerebecki: danke [13:05:18] Lydia_WMDE: around? :D [13:35:51] addshore: not for you. denied [13:48:52] Reedy: your denied [13:49:02] what, fast internet? [13:49:21] super fast, only 13 mins of lag ;) [13:49:51] your denied entering the EU due to brexit... [13:51:55] addshore: I'm not sure that's something you should be joking about [13:52:02] :/ [13:52:26] I've got a feeling it's gonna be pretty close :/ [13:52:44] yup :/ [13:53:16] Reedy: have faith in the betting crowd though http://news.forexlive.com/!/brexit-odds-widening-despite-big-names-wanting-to-leave-20160307 [13:53:30] heh [13:53:42] I suspect it'll be like the scotland vote [14:02:27] addshore: hey [14:10:13] DanielK_WMDE: i meant this one https://suegardner.org/2010/09/04/why-speaking-for-effect-is-a-bad-idea/ [17:32:17] Is this Wikibase\Client\Changes\WikiPageUpdater log data in WMF prod really valuable? That log channel accounts for 88% of the MediaWiki log volume in Logstash. [17:32:27] which seems crazy [17:48:53] bd808: ask addshore or maybe hoo [17:49:17] aude: I'll ping them on the phab ticket I opened [17:49:23] i'm not sure we still need to log this [17:49:39] but as i say, not sure :) [17:49:51] * aude runs away [17:49:57] hm [17:50:20] We used it for at least one bug at a time [17:50:28] but not sure how valuable it is these days [17:50:50] well 88% of MW log volume is a lot to spend on "not sure" :) [17:51:01] Yeah [17:51:10] either sample or directly disable [17:51:13] will comment on the bug [17:51:25] awesome [18:51:28] bd808: which ticket? :O [18:51:48] / which bit of code? :D [18:52:11] addshore: T136852 and https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/292395/ [18:52:11] T136852: Wikibase\Client\Changes\WikiPageUpdater logging is very verbose - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T136852 [18:52:54] yeh, IMO it can be killed :0 [18:52:56] :) [18:53:11] awesome. can you +1 the config change? [18:53:25] yup [18:53:43] done! [18:54:16] thanks. I'll push it this afternoon and start getting some disk space back [21:59:49] Are the servers having trouble at the moment? [22:00:51] YairRand: why are you asking? because the status.wm page looks weird? [22:01:53] mutante: some things based on api requests aren't getting responses. might just be a script issue, though. [22:02:41] hmm, ok. so not aware of server issues at least [22:02:56] looked at the monitoring page [22:03:24] status.wm.org is being worked on itself right now, but icinga is all fine [22:04:35] so, probably just a script issue. I'll have to look into that... [22:04:40] thanks for the help [22:05:13] yw