[05:16:42] <donutPower>	 +n
[07:46:12] <addshore>	 ahhhhhhh
[08:22:49] <addshore>	 Thiemo_WMDE: Adrian_WMDE https://gyazo.com/c31dff5ea923aade08111ba2435c8b3a
[08:23:08] <addshore>	 or as an mp4 :P https://i.gyazo.com/c31dff5ea923aade08111ba2435c8b3a.mp4
[09:56:51] <aharoni>	 Hallo.
[09:57:44] <aharoni>	 This ContentTranslation commit failed Jenkins tests: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/248864/
[09:57:51] <aharoni>	 You won't believe what happened next.
[09:58:13] <aharoni>	 Seriously though, it probably has something to do with Wikidata dependencies.
[09:58:41] <aharoni>	 aude: ^
[09:58:45] <aharoni>	 jzerebecki: ^
[09:59:07] <aude>	 aharoni: looking 
[09:59:09] * aude *sighs*
[10:01:35] <aharoni>	 We don't use Scribunto directly, and I guess that if we define Wikidata as a dependency (and I'm pretty sure that we do), and Wikidata needs Scribunto, the Wikidata should define it as a dependency, not us.
[10:05:28] <aude>	 wikidata does for our tests
[10:05:53] <aude>	 anyway looking
[10:08:36] * aude suspects something in core is causing breakage and incompatibility
[10:09:48] <aude>	 Adrian_WMDE: are you looking at the test failures?
[10:09:55] <aude>	 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/249083/ ?
[10:09:55] <Adrian_WMDE>	 Yes I am
[10:09:57] <aude>	 ok
[10:10:10] <aude>	 if you get stuck or need help, then i can look (or at least review)
[10:10:32] <Adrian_WMDE>	 Cool, thanks :)
[10:13:03] <aharoni>	 hi hashar :)
[10:22:38] <hashar>	 aharoni: hello
[10:33:26] <aude>	 thanks Adrian_WMDE and Thiemo_WMDE :)
[10:33:31] <Adrian_WMDE>	 :)
[10:33:57] <aude>	 i'll have to make a new build once it's merged, so tests pass for aharoni 
[10:34:35] <aharoni>	 aude: thanks
[10:47:06] <Adrian_WMDE>	 hashar: Can you help us/me fixing https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/view/BrowserTests/view/Wikidata/job/browsertests-Wikidata-PerformanceTests-linux-firefox-sauce/415/consoleFull?
[10:47:16] <Adrian_WMDE>	 It currently fails with `ERROR: Publisher 'Publish JUnit test result report' failed: No test report files were found. Configuration error?`
[10:51:54] <hashar>	 Adrian_WMDE: busy dealing with Jenkins right now , will look at it after
[10:52:00] <hashar>	 seems some Junit xml file is not generated
[10:52:10] <Adrian_WMDE>	 Cool, it's not urgent
[10:59:10] <Sturm_>	 Hello there, is there anyone here who can merge two itens in Wikidata? I was not able to do it by myself. :/
[11:00:51] <hashar>	 Adrian_WMDE: looked at https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/job/browsertests-Wikidata-PerformanceTests-linux-firefox-sauce/415/consoleFull
[11:01:09] <hashar>	 Adrian_WMDE: looks like no scenario matches the cucumber tags 
[11:01:14] <hashar>	 cucumber is invoked with  --tags @performance_testing --tags @firefox
[11:02:16] <hashar>	 and since no tests are run, no JUnit result is written and the Jenkins plugin that deal with JUnit files complains and fail the build
[11:02:36] <Adrian_WMDE>	 But features/performance_test.feature matches that, and the output looks to me like it is recognized
[11:07:49] <Adrian_WMDE>	 Also, I just ran `bundle exec cucumber --backtrace --color --verbose --format junit --out junit --tags @performance_testing --tags @firefox` locally and it ran
[11:48:23] <Tobi_WMDE_SW>	 Adrian_WMDE: Thiemo_WMDE: what's happening here? https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/249083/
[11:48:46] <Tobi_WMDE_SW>	 also the current build seems to fail because of that. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/249089/
[11:48:58] <Adrian_WMDE>	 Jenkins went readonly while merging that
[11:49:08] <Adrian_WMDE>	 Oh
[11:49:11] <Adrian_WMDE>	 maybe not
[11:49:48] <Adrian_WMDE>	 maybe yes
[11:50:00] <Adrian_WMDE>	 I don't think the build failure is related to the change
[11:50:36] <hashar>	 aharoni: the error you have for contentTranslation is actually the test Wikibase\Test\EditEntityTest::testAttemptSaveRateLimit  failling
[11:50:40] <hashar>	 aharoni: for some reason
[11:51:07] <Adrian_WMDE>	 hashar: aharoni: I fixed that in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/249083/
[11:51:33] <hashar>	 Adrian_WMDE: how the hell are you so fast to fix up issues? :-}
[11:52:29] <Adrian_WMDE>	 It broke my changes
[11:52:30] <JohnFLewis>	 hashar: WMDE people are given magic on hiring to enhance their work
[11:55:47] <hashar>	 sounds good
[11:55:55] <hashar>	 I should attend some magic training class in Berlin
[11:56:16] <sjoerddebruin>	 :P
[11:56:23] <hashar>	 bah
[11:56:26] <hashar>	 still broken https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/job/mwext-testextension-zend/13351/ :/
[11:58:16] <Adrian_WMDE>	 mh
[11:58:56] <hashar>	 probably unrelated
[11:59:01] <Adrian_WMDE>	 but that's the old build, isn't it?
[11:59:05] <hashar>	 that spurts out: "UsageException: The wiki is currently in read-only mode"
[12:00:31] <hashar>	 I am not sure what is happening there :-/
[12:02:16] <Adrian_WMDE>	 Strange, https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/job/mwext-Wikibase-repo-tests-sqlite-hhvm/ consistently fails again
[12:02:46] <hashar>	 seems related to https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/249083/
[12:03:10] <Adrian_WMDE>	 I have an idea
[12:03:56] <hashar>	 maybe the mw-debug-cli.log attached to the build can help
[12:04:08] <Adrian_WMDE>	 I change the config, then clear the ObjectCache. In tearDown, config is reverted, but ObjectCache probably isn't
[12:05:01] <Adrian_WMDE>	 cleared, so the reverted setting is not applied
[12:09:33] <hashar>	 food time 
[12:35:23] <sjoerddebruin>	 hi Amir1 
[12:35:34] <Amir1>	 sjoerddebruin: hey :)
[12:35:38] <Amir1>	 how are you?
[12:37:10] <sjoerddebruin>	 Good, you?
[12:38:18] <Amir1>	 great, I have so many good news to share in wikidata's birthday :)
[12:39:09] <sjoerddebruin>	 Ah, you're coming? :)
[12:39:40] <Amir1>	 no, visa is a huge problem. I meant online
[12:40:05] <sjoerddebruin>	 Ahw. :(
[12:40:21] <Amir1>	 I hope people enjoy the party
[13:15:21] <Adrian_WMDE>	 aude: halp
[13:15:28] <Adrian_WMDE>	 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/249104/
[13:15:54] <Adrian_WMDE>	 All API tests report readonly db
[13:18:59] <aude>	 Adrian_WMDE: wtf?!
[13:19:05] * aude looks
[13:19:28] <Adrian_WMDE>	 I suppose I broke something
[13:19:33] <aude>	 idk
[13:26:11] <sjoerddebruin>	 It's time. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:LongPages
[13:29:56] <addshore>	 Adrian_WMDE: aude I think this has happened before? maybe?
[13:30:46] <Adrian_WMDE>	 I don't know
[13:45:55] <Adrian_WMDE>	 https://git.wikimedia.org/blobdiff/mediawiki%2Fcore.git/6343ba575f7d98423f5d56bca477f4a149ce4721/includes%2Fapi%2FApiMain.php
[13:47:46] <Adrian_WMDE>	 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/249119/
[16:03:05] <sjoerddebruin>	 Hm, is it just me or is search borked?
[16:03:44] <sjoerddebruin>	 Hm, only happening with the thing I want to use... Probably a big list of results.
[16:04:35] <sjoerddebruin>	 Weird stuff.
[16:05:46] <aude>	 like how?
[16:06:08] * aude hopes it's not borked but possible
[16:06:22] <sjoerddebruin>	 Well, "Wereldbeker schaatsen" was taking a long time to load the suggestions.
[16:06:47] <aude>	 ok, so it's the terms table....
[16:06:55] <aude>	 and not Special:Search?
[16:07:04] <sjoerddebruin>	 I don't know...
[16:07:20] <aude>	 you mean when adding new statements, the suggestions there?
[16:07:31] <sjoerddebruin>	 Yep, but also the search suggestions on the top right.
[16:07:41] <aude>	 essentially same thing
[16:07:56] <aude>	 seems fast to me, but might depend on what you are searching :/
[16:08:19] <sjoerddebruin>	 "Wereldbeker schaatsen" with a Dutch language setting. :)
[16:08:43] * aude tries
[16:09:12] <sjoerddebruin>	 It works after a few seconds, but that is longer than other searches.
[16:09:17] <aude>	 seems a little slow
[16:10:12] <sjoerddebruin>	 Weird thing is, I don't have it with other items.
[16:10:34] <aude>	 might be something about the particular query
[16:10:42] <aude>	 we would have to investigate
[16:10:55] <sjoerddebruin>	 Phab ticket? :O
[16:11:05] <aude>	 if you like
[16:11:39] <aude>	 we know that the term (entity suggestions) should be more 'performant' but could be a specific issue here
[16:15:41] <sjoerddebruin>	 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T116773
[16:18:18] <aude>	 thanks
[16:19:23] <sjoerddebruin>	 Also wondering if there is a task for the bug that it also shows the MediaWiki suggestion thing together with our replacement..
[16:21:11] <aude>	 i know there is a task for that
[16:21:36] <aude>	 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T48251 maybe?
[16:22:11] <sjoerddebruin>	 Nope, sometimes they just show both up, with the mediawiki one above our one.
[16:49:16] <tobias47n9e_>	 https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-terminator/ down?
[16:50:53] <Stryn>	 yes
[16:51:12] <tobias47n9e_>	 Stryn, Thanks.
[16:51:41] <Stryn>	 all tools in wmflabs are currently down, to be exact
[16:52:41] <tobias47n9e_>	 Stryn, Yeah for me too. Just when I need to test something :)
[16:53:03] <Stryn>	 the same for me, I didn't use autolist for few days, and now when I need it, it won't open :)
[16:55:05] <Stryn>	 tobias47n9e_: and now should work again
[17:02:53] <tobias47n9e_>	 Has anyone tried creating a Distributed Game?
[17:03:55] <tobias47n9e_>	 I would like to turn Wikidata-Terminator into a game, so people can add translations on their mobiles.
[17:04:41] <sjoerddebruin>	 Hm, a tricky one for a game
[17:09:46] <tobias47n9e_>	 sjoerddebruin, It could possibly suggest 1 Translation and the user can say yes/no
[17:27:36] <Reedy>	 When can I kill the ORM stuff from core? ;)
[17:29:28] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Reedy: whenever you like, wikibase doesn't use it any more
[17:29:47] <Reedy>	 I think we were waiting for you to branch and use that branch
[17:30:04] <Reedy>	 ie don't want to remove it from core if older wikibase still in use/being used needs it
[17:33:18] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 Reedy: ah, right. i think the version we have life doesn't need the orm stuff any more, but please double-check with aude and jzerebecki
[17:33:52] <DanielK_WMDE_>	 branching and deplyoment was a bit chaotic lately
[17:36:37] <aude>	 we probably branch next week, but not sure
[17:39:55] <Reedy>	 I'll leave it C-2 for now then
[17:40:23] <aude>	 ok
[18:25:36] <nikki>	 how do you query sitelinks in sparql? can't seem to find any examples
[18:51:29] <Nemo_bis>	 nikki: I asked the same in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Wikibase/Indexing/SPARQL_Query_Examples
[18:53:01] <nikki>	 aww, no response yet
[19:43:02] <harej>	 Is it safe for me to assume that associating pictures with Wikidata items, en masse, is inappropriate?
[19:43:13] <harej>	 I understand that Wikidata items may have, like, one, or a few pictures associated with them.
[19:43:27] <harej>	 But I am thinking of having all of Commons somehow associated with Wikidata items.
[19:43:39] <harej>	 It would be *very* useful but might just bloat things.
[19:43:46] <hoo>	 harej: I guess so... otherwise people would probably have started to slap the whole commons category onto that
[19:44:00] <harej>	 What I could entertain is starting my own wiki where we do that :}
[19:44:03] <hoo>	 (and that would be awful)
[19:44:21] <harej>	 And we can tie it into a game thing. "What is this?" "Why, that's a picture of Qxxxxx"
[19:44:34] <nikki>	 I think it would make more sense for commons to have proper metadata which links to various wikidata items
[19:44:46] <harej>	 And there *is* CommonsMetadata, but I don't know how it works.
[19:45:22] <hoo>	 commonsmetadata is only making the wikitext on the image description machine readable
[19:45:40] <hoo>	 (the thing we have now, not the planned Wikibase thing)
[19:45:59] <harej>	 which is... silly :)
[19:46:12] <harej>	 i've done it before and i'll do it again! let a million wikibase instances bloom!
[19:48:47] <harej>	 so, would i be duplicating work or interfering with someone's project if i created a service of some kind that associated commons media with wikidata items?
[19:49:12] <harej>	 (wikibase may not be the correct technology to use here, but *some* service.)
[19:50:29] <hoo>	 We kind of already have taht... commons categories are already linked
[19:50:42] <hoo>	 and they should itself link their subcategories
[19:50:52] <hoo>	 would just need to read that tree recursively, I guess
[20:06:01] <harej>	 how fleshed out are the commons category items?
[20:11:47] <hoo>	 harej: I guess it's pretty good in parts... and then again you will hit big big messes
[20:12:08] <harej>	 well, it's a wiki... [[m:eventualism|eventually]], we'll get it right
[20:12:09] <AsimovBot>	 10[1] 10https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/eventualism
[20:12:12] <hoo>	 Whenever I look through them for some reason, I'm disappointed
[20:12:36] <harej>	 the question is if there's potential. Is there a property for "this category includes pictures of," or something?
[20:12:45] <nikki>	 what do you mean by fleshed out? how many we link to, or how much extra data we have on those items?
[20:12:56] <harej>	 presence of statements on these items
[20:12:59] <harej>	 as opposed to just being bare items
[20:13:07] <harej>	 or items with just "instance of wikimedia category"
[20:13:33] <hoo>	 Hopefully main topic will be set
[20:14:12] <harej>	 main topic! that is suitable
[20:14:25] <harej>	 and are categories on commons discrete enough that they refer to specific things?
[20:14:46] <hoo>	 Sometimes
[20:14:47] <harej>	 i imagine if they're anything like (english) wikipedia, they get really into the weeds and really describe different intersections of things
[20:15:11] <harej>	 so you have [[Category:White dogs]], https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:White_dogs
[20:15:12] <AsimovBot>	 10[2] 04https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Category:White_dogs
[20:15:18] <nikki>	 they tend to be more detailed than ones in other wikis, since they're grouping files, not articles
[20:15:21] <harej>	 it should be "main topic: dog" with a qualifier
[20:15:39] <hoo>	 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Number_56_on_buses
[20:15:46] <hoo>	 these are my favorite :D
[20:15:49] <harej>	 ...the free time some of these people have
[20:16:06] <harej>	 so, category:number 56 on buses.
[20:16:17] <harej>	 ...no wikidata item!?
[20:16:34] <harej>	 well, if it had one, it would be "main topic: bus". how would we qualify it in a way distinct to this category?
[20:17:06] <hoo>	 main topic: buses and 56
[20:17:17] <harej>	 so, just having both of them. makes sense.
[20:17:19] <nikki>	 category combines topic, I think
[20:17:24] <hoo>	 also that's the point where we in a perfect world probably rather want the data on commons directly
[20:17:44] <harej>	 inference via category membership and corresponding wikidata entry is good enough for now
[20:18:36] <hoo>	 Also you have https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P910 on the categories main topic
[20:18:54] <hoo>	 Guess that is better for finding "general pictures"
[20:19:44] <harej>	 "main category" is limiting though. to reuse the wonderful example of dogs, commons has many categories about dogs
[20:20:15] <nikki>	 ah, https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P971 is the one I was referring to
[20:20:34] <harej>	 ooooh
[20:22:24] <hoo>	 nikki: Oh, didn't know that
[20:22:26] <hoo>	 nice to see
[20:24:03] <harej>	 what about categories that are just about one topic? https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P301 ?
[20:25:03] <nikki>	 probably, yeah
[20:28:24] <nikki>	 oh, I'm not sure whether a commons category with no other sitelinks is excluded by the notability policy or not (it's confusingly worded), if they are, that might be why quite a few don't have wikidata items yet
[20:28:56] <harej>	 aren't categories considered to be wikidata-notable?
[20:29:35] <nikki>	 yes, but there's a specific bit about commons categories on https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability that I don't really understand
[20:32:38] <harej>	 "In addition, an item with only a sitelink to a category page in Wikimedia Commons is not allowed on main article items. However, it is allowed to link Wikimedia Commons categories with categories in other Wikimedia sites in items"
[20:33:00] <harej>	 what that says is:
[20:33:27] <harej>	 [[commons:Category:Dogs]] cannot be a sitelink on https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q144
[20:33:29] <AsimovBot>	 10[3] 10https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dogs
[20:33:53] <nikki>	 that doesn't make sense though, it's the page about what makes an item notable
[20:34:19] <harej>	 it also says that [[commons:Category:Dogs]] can be a sitelink on https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6830323
[20:34:19] <AsimovBot>	 10[4] 10https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dogs
[20:34:26] <harej>	 and it is
[20:34:37] <harej>	 technically speaking, my use case isn't addressed
[20:35:23] <harej>	 it says i can't have a commons category as a sitelink on an item; it doesn't say i can't have a sitelink *about* that item
[20:35:25] <harej>	 err
[20:35:29] <harej>	 an item about that sitelink
[20:35:46] <harej>	 in which case, it falls under the general rule, which allows this
[20:37:53] <harej>	 i guess the idea is that the category shouldn't be associated with an article item, but rather, a *gallery* (i.e. a main namespace commons page) should
[20:37:56] <nikki>	 I still find it confusingly written, because that interpretation doesn't make sense to me in the context of that page :/
[20:39:34] <harej>	 I interpret "main article items" to be items other than those that are instances of wikimedia categories (P31: Q4167836)
[20:39:53] <harej>	 or are otherwise "meta"
[20:41:28] <nikki>	 the point I'm making is that the rest of the page is about which items are notable
[20:42:52] <nikki>	 and where you should add commons links has nothing to do with whether the categories are notable or not
[20:51:08] <harej>	 right; the other caveats phrase things in terms of "only allowed if"
[20:51:18] <harej>	 whereas the caveat for commons is more complex
[20:51:30] <nikki>	 another reading of it would be: normally, a sitelink makes something notable, but a sitelink to a commons category doesn't make it notable, it's only notable if it's being used to link to other categories
[20:52:13] <nikki>	 and if a commons category is always notable, then the main topic is also notable, since you can link to it using the properties we mentioned earlier to describe the category
[20:52:22] <nikki>	 which comes back to what I was saying, it's confusing :)
[20:53:05] <nikki>	 personally I don't have an issue with commons categories having items, but I wouldn't be surprised if other people have interpreted it to mean they're not notable
[20:53:31] <harej>	 "In addition, an item with only a sitelink to a category page in Wikimedia Commons is not allowed on main article items." should probably not be included in the notability policy then, since it describes an editorial practice, rather than a notability threshold.
[21:19:25] <harej>	 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dogs_by_colour << would this be considered a combination category?
[21:21:44] <harej>	 whereas "white dogs" combined "dog" and "white", this is more a topic being subdivided...