[05:57:02] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Support multiple scripts for one language - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97882#1254134 (10GerardM) 3NEW a:3Lydia_Pintscher
[05:59:25] <GerardM->	 Good morning ... If you do not have it on your task list yet, I just added a whopper ... a biggie
[05:59:26] <GerardM->	 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97882
[07:41:14] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Support multiple scripts for one language - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97882#1254182 (10daniel) 5Open>3Invalid Automatic transliteration of labels is already applied as part of the language fallback mechanism, if MediaWiki supports transliteration for the respective language variants. So,...
[08:19:53] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata, 10Wikimedia-Language-setup, 10Wikimedia-Site-requests, 6operations, 5Patch-For-Review: Create Wikipedia Konkani - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96468#1254204 (10Visdaviva) @Nemo_bis the Konkani community has already done 91% of the Mediawiki (most important messages) of this 80% were rev...
[09:36:06] <JeroenDeDauw>	 Haha, PHPUnit going to drop support for PHP < 5.6
[09:36:08] <JeroenDeDauw>	 https://github.com/sebastianbergmann/phpunit/issues/1705
[09:38:09] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata, 10Wikimedia-Language-setup, 10Wikimedia-Site-requests, 6operations, 5Patch-For-Review: Create Wikipedia Konkani - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96468#1254246 (10Glaisher) >>! In T96468#1251881, @Krenair wrote: > So before we create this wiki, we need those translations to be approved and...
[10:00:33] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10WikidataBuilder: New Wikidata Build - 2015-05-02T10:00:01+0000 [extensions/Wikidata] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/208371 
[10:23:39] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Enable language-neutral label for items in Wikidata - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97886#1254315 (10Effeietsanders) 3NEW
[10:42:06] <sjoerddebruin>	 Lydia_WMDE: Who is your jquery-expert?
[10:42:25] <Lydia_WMDE>	 sjoerddebruin: depends on what you need
[10:42:30] <Lydia_WMDE>	 what is it?
[10:42:35] <sjoerddebruin>	 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Jitrixis/nameGuzzler.js is broken in Firefox
[10:42:51] <sjoerddebruin>	 Automatic selection of the checkboxes doesn't work
[10:42:59] <Lydia_WMDE>	 ok
[10:43:12] <Lydia_WMDE>	 then maybe benestar or thiemo can look into it
[11:56:32] <multichill>	 sjoerddebruin: I bet some id's or class names were changed
[11:56:55] <sjoerddebruin>	 Well, it's still working in webkit-based browsers.
[11:56:59] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata, 10Gather, 6Mobile-Web: setHTMLTitle to empty string or false should prevent rendering of H1 on page - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97891#1254408 (10Jdlrobson) 3NEW
[11:57:32] <multichill>	 Strange. Should be changed into a gadget btw
[12:02:42] <sjoerddebruin>	 Well, it needs to be stable first
[12:19:59] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Jdlrobson: "Various early bits of feedback - mostly ideas that will help you build this faster on the long term." (038 comments) [extensions/WikidataPageBanner] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/208096 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94772) (owner: 10Sumit)
[12:31:15] <sjoerddebruin>	 Lydia_WMDE: Are there any problems atm with processing page moves?
[12:31:26] <Lydia_WMDE>	 none i am aware of
[12:32:34] <sjoerddebruin>	 It seems broken https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speciaal%3ALogboeken&type=move&user=&page=&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_patrol_log=1&hide_tag_log=1&hide_thanks_log=1
[12:33:17] <sjoerddebruin>	 (most pages don't have a Wikidata link anymore)
[12:41:20] <sjoerddebruin>	 Lydia_WMDE: I don't know if it's related to usage tracking. Enwiki doesn't seem to have problems and there is no recent activity on frwikisource.
[12:41:48] <Lydia_WMDE>	 -.-
[12:41:51] <Lydia_WMDE>	 not good!
[12:41:55] <Lydia_WMDE>	 aude: ^
[12:41:57] <sjoerddebruin>	 Oh wait, also problems on enwiki it seems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Brodie_(botanist)
[12:42:01] <sjoerddebruin>	 Link is still on https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=James_Brodie_of_Brodie&redirect=no
[12:42:27] <Lydia_WMDE>	 thx sjoerddebruin. will make sure marius and katie look into it soon
[12:46:28] <sjoerddebruin>	 Problem seems to exists since this morning.
[12:47:07] <Lydia_WMDE>	 that's very odd
[12:47:33] <Lydia_WMDE>	 anyway - i'll send an email hoping someone can look at it asap
[12:52:37] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Autocomplete for language in 'official name' does not work properly - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97894#1254453 (10Effeietsanders) 3NEW
[12:53:30] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Autocomplete for language in 'official name' does not work properly - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97894#1254460 (10Effeietsanders)
[12:54:43] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Autocomplete for language in 'official name' does not work properly - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97894#1254453 (10Effeietsanders)
[13:05:13] <GerardM->	 Lydia_WMDE: does my ticket make sense to you ?
[13:05:30] <Lydia_WMDE>	 GerardM-: i'll need to have a closer look on monday
[13:05:37] <GerardM->	 ok
[13:05:49] <GerardM->	 please ask as many questions as you like
[13:05:57] <GerardM->	 it is quite hairy
[13:08:12] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Support multiple scripts for one language - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97882#1254480 (10GerardM) Hoi, That is not the preferred solution. It is relevant to have BOTH scripts available, Having only one is not good enough. Thanks,      GerardM
[13:11:03] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Support multiple scripts for one language - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97882#1254482 (10GerardM) 5Invalid>3Open
[13:12:57] <hoo>	 Lydia_WMDE: Got your mail... did anyone poke at it, yet?
[13:13:08] <Lydia_WMDE>	 hoo: not yet no
[13:13:12] <Lydia_WMDE>	 and yay :)
[13:13:21] <hoo>	 Ok, will have a quick look
[13:13:30] <Lydia_WMDE>	 thanks!
[13:14:38] <hoo>	 nlwiki, right?
[13:14:45] <sjoerddebruin>	 Also enwiki, it seems.
[13:14:56] <sjoerddebruin>	 eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Brodie_(botanist)
[13:15:06] <hoo>	 enwiki is unlikely
[13:15:11] <hoo>	 mh
[13:16:24] <sjoerddebruin>	 Also dewiki, so yes. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glover-Bluff-Krater
[13:17:04] <hoo>	 Does that happen post edit?
[13:17:11] <hoo>	 I mean after a wikidata edit?
[13:17:45] <sjoerddebruin>	 Idk, it seems just like they don't get processed. (Just like when somebody without a SUL would rename a page)
[13:20:49] <hoo>	 2015-05-02 15:13:29 mw1077 dewiki UpdateRepo INFO: Can't validate user Blitzogled: User is not attached locally or on wikidatawiki {"private":false}
[13:21:42] <hoo>	 So that's why the move on dewiki didn't propagate
[13:21:52] <hoo>	 that's not nice, but expected behaviour
[13:22:13] <sjoerddebruin>	 Oh yes, people who don't visit Wikidata...
[13:22:30] <sjoerddebruin>	 But that doesn't explain the situation on enwiki and nlwiki.
[13:22:52] <hoo>	 The enwiki you gave me: UpdateRepoOnMove Special:Badtitle/JobSpecification siteId=enwiki entityId=Q6130260 oldTitle=James Brodie of Brodie newTitle=James Brodie (botanist) user=BrownHairedGirl jobReleaseTimestamp=1430566050 (uuid=25d74f541b62448db43ffede68c82ec0) status=delayed
[13:23:03] <hoo>	 So it's delayed
[13:23:09] <hoo>	 probably to many jobs of that type
[13:23:46] <sjoerddebruin>	 Well, too many jobs since like 7 am here.
[13:24:08] <hoo>	 mh
[13:24:11] <hoo>	 let me check some statistics
[13:25:04] <sjoerddebruin>	 The first one on nlwiki seems https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tumulus_van_Liek&action=history, Romaine encountered that one.
[13:25:30] <Romaine>	 maybe not the first one?
[13:26:48] <sjoerddebruin>	 Well, the one before that was https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versnellermassaspectroscopie and that one was processed.
[13:27:35] <hoo>	 The number of propagated moves is very low today
[13:27:41] <hoo>	 only 199 up to now
[13:27:53] <hoo>	 usually we get well over a thousand at any given day
[13:27:57] <hoo>	 so something is of
[13:29:02] <sjoerddebruin>	 Anyway, imo every SUL user should have a account on Wikidata, just like loginwiki.
[13:29:49] <hoo>	 Yeah
[13:31:03] <hoo>	 very weird
[13:31:37] <hoo>	 re creating accounts for all people: Not sure we should do that or just auto create accounts if needed
[13:31:57] <hoo>	 Both options are ugly to implement :/
[13:48:45] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Support multiple scripts for one language - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97882#1254526 (10daniel) @GerardM having them available where, exactly? And how many? There's like six variants of Chinese, IIRC. Do you want to display them all, always?
[13:49:52] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Behavior switch __EXPECT_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97577#1254527 (10Bugreporter) I think it's better to have two magic words. My preferred name is `__UNCONNECTEDOPTOUT__` and `__NONNOTABLE__`. The first for pages currently don't need an item (e.g. pages in Afd), the seco...
[13:54:08] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Show available transliterations for entity labels in the top area of entity pages - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97882#1254530 (10daniel)
[13:54:28] <DanielK_WMDE>	 GerardM-: --^
[14:07:59] <GerardM->	 Hoi Daniel, technically you do not talk of transliteration when a word is legitimately written in another script. In the case of Chinese or Serbian you accept a string in either script
[14:12:10] <GerardM->	 DanielK_WMDE: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:GerardM is what is needed
[14:12:35] <GerardM->	 It is not only about labels
[14:12:42] <GerardM->	 it is way more complicated
[14:13:40] <DanielK_WMDE>	 "transliteration" in our sense is when text in one variant is generated automatically from text in another. 
[14:13:54] <DanielK_WMDE>	 If it's not only about labels, what else is it about?
[14:14:03] <DanielK_WMDE>	 I don't understand the link to your user page
[14:14:08] <DanielK_WMDE>	 GerardM-: --^
[14:14:29] <GerardM->	 what you want is to have both sr-Cyrl or sr-Latn available in full
[14:14:48] <DanielK_WMDE>	 we do. 
[14:15:10] <GerardM->	 we do not
[14:15:13] <DanielK_WMDE>	 you can enter it explicitly. or rely on the automatic transliteration.
[14:15:24] <DanielK_WMDE>	 how do we not? what do you mean by "in full"?
[14:15:36] <GerardM->	 try the example from my Babel example
[14:16:08] <DanielK_WMDE>	 GerardM-: use the correct language codes: sr-ec and sr-el
[14:16:30] <GerardM->	 They are both incorrect and WMF fabrications
[14:16:52] <GerardM->	 They indicate dialectical differences
[14:17:04] <GerardM->	 they largely coincide with the preference for a scripts
[14:17:52] <DanielK_WMDE>	 it'S what is used for the automatic transliteration on serbian wikipedia
[14:18:05] <DanielK_WMDE>	 the mechanism we use is consistent with that (actually, it'S the same mechansim)
[14:18:15] <DanielK_WMDE>	 if you want to change that, it has nothing to do with wikibase
[14:19:22] <GerardM->	 Correct
[14:19:31] <GerardM->	 I tried Chinese in stead
[14:19:35] <DanielK_WMDE>	 also, transliteration doesn't have to be about scripts.
[14:19:48] <DanielK_WMDE>	 we can transcribe from de to de-ch automatically (but not vice versa)
[14:20:57] <GerardM->	 Hoi, I write a mail to Milos about this .... I send you a cc so that you know about this..
[14:20:59] <DanielK_WMDE>	 (well, we easily could. it's not implemented)
[14:21:27] <GerardM->	 <grin> who wrote the transcription ?
[14:21:50] <DanielK_WMDE>	 sure. as of now, I nither completely understand the goal, nor the requirements and constraints.
[14:22:28] <DanielK_WMDE>	 what, for de to de-ch? i don't think anyone did, but it's just "ß" -> "ss".
[14:22:48] <DanielK_WMDE>	 Liangent once implemented transliteration to pig lating for English, but it didn't get merged (too bad!)
[14:23:00] <DanielK_WMDE>	 * Pig Latin
[14:24:18] <DanielK_WMDE>	 GerardM-: but if you say it's not just about labels... what else? Descriptions, maybe. Depends. Would work for serbian and chinese, as well as de -> de-ch. Wouldn't work for ru -> de translit.
[14:25:02] <DanielK_WMDE>	 I guess transliteration between variants can be applied to text (like descriptions), while transliteration between languages / scripts should only be applied to labels / names.
[14:25:49] <GerardM->	 Daniel I disagree
[14:26:00] <GerardM->	 there are also descriptions
[14:26:29] <DanielK_WMDE>	 but reading a russion description in latin script doesn't make sense to me
[14:26:39] <GerardM->	 your example of ru -> de is not on topic
[14:26:59] <DanielK_WMDE>	 well, it's the topic of the epic thread about name transliteration
[14:27:17] <GerardM->	 Russiian may be transliterated for German usage but it does not have the same use case
[14:27:40] <GerardM->	 This is restricted to languages with multiple scripts only
[14:27:57] <DanielK_WMDE>	 i'd say "variants", not "scripts"
[14:28:03] <GerardM->	 They are not
[14:28:13] <GerardM->	 consider Chinese
[14:28:15] <DanielK_WMDE>	 well, they are not scripts either
[14:28:22] <GerardM->	 they are
[14:28:40] <DanielK_WMDE>	 simplified chinese uses a subset of traditional chinese. it's not a different script
[14:29:00] <GerardM->	 when sr-el starts to drift in its spelling, the transliteration remains the same
[14:29:09] <GerardM->	 <sigh> it is 
[14:31:26] <GerardM->	 the standard says so
[14:32:04] <GerardM->	 iso 15924
[14:34:10] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Support multiple scripts for one language - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97882#1254547 (10GerardM)
[14:38:15] <DanielK_WMDE>	 GerardM-: sadly, i don't have access to iso norms, so i'll take your word for it.
[14:39:12] <DanielK_WMDE>	 anyway, if you want to make distinctions between scripts, variants, dialects, etc, that'll be a barrel of of fun we are not going to see the end of.
[14:39:15] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE: Which ISO are we looking for?
[14:39:37] <hoo>	 nvm, saw it
[14:39:49] <DanielK_WMDE>	 hoo: iso 15924. but not urgent. A full copy if iso 8901 would be nice though :)
[14:40:23] <DanielK_WMDE>	 GerardM-: the question is, what's the model with minimal complexity that we can use to cover the relevant use cases at a sane cost?
[14:42:42] <hoo>	 Seems like I could only access DIN norms... sucks
[14:44:01] <GerardM->	 Have you read the WIkipedia article about it ?
[14:46:36] <hoo>	 No, but I know that licensing of them is pretty crazy
[14:46:42] <hoo>	 I mean it...
[14:48:52] <GerardM->	 there is no problem in applying it
[14:49:06] <GerardM->	 the iso 15924 codes are a Wikidata property
[14:49:10] <GerardM->	 so we know them all
[14:50:27] <GerardM->	 and yes the licinsing is disfunctional
[14:50:28] <GerardM->	 the Wikipedia article is pretty complete as far as I know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15924
[14:50:52] <GerardM->	 no it is not complete
[14:51:02] <GerardM->	 Sgnw is missing
[14:51:43] <GerardM->	 http://unicode.org/iso15924/codechanges.html
[14:52:15] <GerardM->	 the point is that we can use any and all codes and any and all characters that are in ISO 15924
[15:03:57] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE: See pm
[16:15:59] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata, 10Gather, 6Mobile-Web: setHTMLTitle to empty string or false should prevent rendering of H1 on page - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97891#1254623 (10Florian) I think you mean OutputPage::setPageTitle()? OutputPage::setHTMLTitle() only set's the title-tag in head.  The problem is, that the h1...
[17:39:30] <sjoerddebruin>	 Lydia_WMDE, hoo: still page move issues.
[17:39:43] <hoo>	 I know
[17:39:48] <hoo>	 nothing we can fix ourselves
[17:39:53] <hoo>	 but I can prepare a patch
[17:40:04] <hoo>	 Need to find someone from ops to merge it, though
[17:40:15] <sjoerddebruin>	 Okay...
[17:41:48] <hoo>	 do we ahve a bug for this?
[17:41:51] <hoo>	 Lydia_WMDE: ^
[17:42:02] <sjoerddebruin>	 Didn't saw anything like that.
[17:45:51] <hoo>	 Ok, it might not be that easy
[17:45:59] <hoo>	 need to poke Aaron tomorrow or on Monday
[17:46:20] <sjoerddebruin>	 Yikes.
[17:46:26] <sjoerddebruin>	 Should I create a bug?
[17:46:38] <hoo>	 not sure
[17:46:42] <sjoerddebruin>	 (or can you describe the problem better?)
[17:48:07] <hoo>	 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/208397 might fix it
[17:49:49] <hoo>	 But beyond that: I don't really have an idea
[17:49:58] <hoo>	 Will poke more tomorrow, or maybe aud.e will
[17:51:10] <hoo>	 Got to go... cu
[17:51:16] <sjoerddebruin>	 Bye...
[17:57:00] <wikibugs>	 10MediaWiki-extensions-WikibaseRepository, 10Wikidata: Page moves don't get processed to Wikidata - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97907#1254717 (10Sjoerddebruin) 3NEW
[18:12:19] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata: Support multiple scripts for one language - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97882#1254734 (10daniel) @GerardM You changed back the wording of the request to say "Support multiple scripts for one language". If taken literally, that means changing what a "language" is to mediawiki. I do not think th...
[18:47:41] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10JanZerebecki: [C: 032] New Wikidata Build - 2015-05-02T10:00:01+0000 [extensions/Wikidata] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/208371 (owner: 10WikidataBuilder)
[18:51:04] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: New Wikidata Build - 2015-05-02T10:00:01+0000 [extensions/Wikidata] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/208371 (owner: 10WikidataBuilder)
[19:48:17] <wikibugs>	 10Wikidata, 10Gather, 6Mobile-Web: setHTMLTitle to empty string or false should prevent rendering of H1 on page - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T97891#1254780 (10Jdlrobson) Maybe @matmarex has some good ideas here. Overriding the h1 and having full control of rendering views seems to be something we shou...
[19:50:47] <JeroenDeDauw>	 !nyan | *
[19:50:47] <wm-bot>	 *: ~=[,,_,,]:3
[20:17:03] <travis-ci>	 wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/master/26d8b3e : Translation updater bot The build is still failing. http://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/builds/60979768