[07:05:31] <Lydia_WMDE>	 JeroenDeDauw: heh ok
[09:16:53] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Aude: [C: 032] Allow reseting WikibaseClient's default instance [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/129457 (owner: 10Hoo man)
[09:17:12] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Allow reseting WikibaseClient's default instance [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/129457 (owner: 10Hoo man)
[09:20:48] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/master/6fbc2bd : Marius Hoch The build is still failing. http://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/builds/24376429
[09:58:10] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Addshore: [C: 032] New Wikidata Build - 02/05/2014 10:00 [extensions/Wikidata] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131037 (owner: 10WikidataBuilder)
[09:58:13] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] New Wikidata Build - 02/05/2014 10:00 [extensions/Wikidata] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131037 (owner: 10WikidataBuilder)
[10:00:24] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10WikidataBuilder: New Wikidata Build - 04/05/2014 10:00 [extensions/Wikidata] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131332 
[10:00:34] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10WikidataJenkins: [V: 04-1] "Build Failed" [extensions/Wikidata] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131332 (owner: 10WikidataBuilder)
[11:59:34] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS2) 10Bene: Create api module 'wbavailablebadges' to query all available badges [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/125886 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/63486) 
[12:00:02] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10WikidataJenkins: [V: 04-1] "Build Failed" [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/125886 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/63486) (owner: 10Bene)
[12:24:57] <multichill>	 GerardM-: Please stop flooding the recent changes with your bot
[12:26:34] <GerardM->	 multichill ? my bot has the bot flag as far as I know
[12:26:41] <multichill>	 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges
[12:27:02] <benestar>	 GerardM-: you have to set bot=1 when editing via api
[12:27:11] <benestar>	 otherwise the bot flag isn't used
[12:27:33] <GerardM->	 benestar, I do program to edit
[12:27:44] <GerardM->	 eh NOT
[12:27:54] <benestar>	 multichill: which account do you mean?
[12:27:55] <multichill>	 you should have gotten a ping for https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Flooding_of_Special:RecentChanges GerardM-
[12:28:28] <benestar>	 multichill: we already had several discussions withtout any result
[12:28:47] <benestar>	 see eg https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#flood_flag
[12:29:29] <multichill>	 benestar: It's quite simple. It's an unauthorized bot flooding the recent changes. Normal behavior would be a block of the bot
[12:29:48] <benestar>	 multichill: from that point of view you are right
[12:30:11] <GerardM->	 multichil I do not mind to set myself as bot when I am doing large amounts of edits
[12:30:26] <GerardM->	 but I want to turn it on and off as needed
[12:31:29] <GerardM->	 that is not possible and some say that is not something they want
[12:33:42] <benestar>	 GerardM-: actually you would have to request community consensus for each import task you do using your bot flag
[12:33:52] <benestar>	 like all the other bot editors to atm
[12:34:17] <benestar>	 which tool one is using is independent of what is the result for the wiki
[12:34:34] <benestar>	 and from that point there is no difference from my bot importing some data and you importing some data using WIDAR
[12:37:07] <multichill>	 GerardM-: You switched accounts but your not using your bot flag
[12:37:39] <GerardM->	 multichill I thought it was using my bot
[12:37:44] <GerardM->	 it does not ...
[12:37:55] <multichill>	 [14:27:04] <benestar> GerardM-: you have to set bot=1 when editing via api
[12:37:59] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS3) 10Bene: Create api module 'wbavailablebadges' to query all available badges [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/125886 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/63486) 
[12:38:10] <GerardM->	 I cannot set that 
[12:38:24] <GerardM->	 said it before
[12:38:39] <multichill>	 That's your responsibility as the bot operator GerardM-
[12:38:45] <benestar>	 GerardM-: so perhaps you need wait until the tool is fixed by magnus
[12:38:47] <GerardM->	 I am not runnign a bot
[12:38:51] <multichill>	 You are
[12:38:52] <benestar>	 GerardM-: you are
[12:39:12] <GerardM->	 you know, there are two sides to it
[12:39:23] <multichill>	 Time for lunch, I'll check back in 30 minutes, see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Flooding_of_Special:RecentChanges
[12:39:28] <GerardM->	 I could use the old version of the AutoList and it floods much more 
[12:39:37] <GerardM->	 and far worse
[12:41:11] <benestar>	 GerardM-: we do not want you to stop working
[12:41:21] <benestar>	 I am really happy you help us so much
[12:41:21] <GerardM->	 well that is the effect of it
[12:41:36] <benestar>	 but there are technical issues which should be fixed asap
[12:42:04] <GerardM->	 I asked in the past for a solution and it was said no
[12:42:10] <GerardM->	 you cannot have it both ways
[12:43:21] <GerardM->	 either I can set a bot flag for when it is a mass of edits
[12:43:32] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10WikidataJenkins: [V: 032] "Build Successful" [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/125886 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/63486) (owner: 10Bene)
[12:43:41] <GerardM->	 or there are many changes in the recent changes
[12:44:07] <benestar>	 GerardM-: why doesn't magnus want to fix it?
[12:44:15] <benestar>	 or did I misunterstand sth now?
[12:44:18] <GerardM->	 the problem is in two
[12:44:23] <GerardM->	 first
[12:44:42] <GerardM->	 if the tool is to be used as bot, it should be possible to set it on and off
[12:45:07] <GerardM->	 if the tools is to be used for small amount of edits, you do not want it to be a bot
[12:45:37] <GerardM->	 for instance http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2014/05/wikidata-may-7th-elections-in-south.html 
[12:46:11] <GerardM->	 I used AutoList to add statements for new items I created by hand
[12:46:52] <GerardM->	 second
[12:47:06] <GerardM->	 the line between tools and bots is fusy
[12:47:48] <benestar>	 I think the first problem could magnus solve easily by adding a checkbox whether to use a botflag or not
[12:47:59] <GerardM->	 that is only part one
[12:48:05] <benestar>	 or by the use of a bot account for many edits and your normal account for small amounts of edits
[12:48:22] <GerardM->	 my bot HAS the bot flog
[12:48:25] <GerardM->	 flag
[12:48:54] <benestar>	 yes, so magnus actually only has to add "bot=true" to his code
[12:49:00] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10Shirayuki: i18n: consistency tweaks [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131340 
[12:49:14] <GerardM->	 I use it for both .. so it is not black and white
[12:49:30] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10WikidataJenkins: [V: 04-1] "Build Failed" [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131340 (owner: 10Shirayuki)
[12:50:15] <GerardM->	 including a tick box would be no problem
[12:50:29] <GerardM->	 is that what you want ?
[12:50:57] <GerardM->	 and would that actually make it a bot edit ?
[12:51:50] <benestar>	 GerardM-: you could switch the bot flag on or of for each batch of edits if magnus wants to implement that
[12:52:22] <GerardM->	 if that goes through a tick box, I am sure that is no problem
[12:53:24] <benestar>	 GerardM-: how it works does not matter to me. the point is that the bot flag should be used if it is available
[12:59:19] <whym_away>	 do the links too tools on the user contributions page work for you?
[12:59:47] <whym>	 should I add fullurl to the system message?
[13:00:28] <whym>	 for example "global contribs" on https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Whym does not work for me
[13:03:08] <whym>	 nvm, I changed it and it seems to work now.
[13:14:54] <multichill>	 GerardM-: You are still flooding recent changes.
[13:15:56] <multichill>	 See https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges . 
[13:18:19] <GerardM->	 Maarten, I am hardly the only one flooding the recent changes
[13:18:50] <GerardM->	 and really there has been talk about this that was not accomadating
[13:25:17] <multichill>	 GerardM-: The fact that other people are doing it doesn't make it alright to do so.
[13:25:42] <lazowik>	 JeroenDeDauw: Clean Code. A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship <- that's *the* book?
[13:28:27] <GerardM->	 multichill the fact that it has been discussed before and there has been no resolution does not make it a crisis now
[13:29:15] <multichill>	 GerardM-, you use a broken tool, you are responsible for getting it fixed
[13:29:56] <GerardM->	 multichill I know Magnus has had contact with Lydia about it
[13:30:12] <GerardM->	 and no the bot is not broken
[13:30:21] <GerardM->	 it is the best we have
[13:30:41] <GerardM->	 given the numbers, editing by hand is no option
[13:30:51] <GerardM->	 when it can be done in a different way
[13:31:56] <GerardM->	 your notions about bots is that a bot user is a developer ...
[13:32:17] <GerardM->	 that is a surefire way of preventing involvement of many many people
[13:35:49] <multichill>	 So get the tool fixed GerardM-
[13:37:38] <GerardM->	 it is prevented from being fixed properly
[13:40:03] <multichill>	 GerardM-: What kind of nonesense is that? We have plenty of bot frameworks working on Wikidata without problems
[13:40:54] <GerardM->	 the nonsense is that there are large numbers of edits that should have the bot flag and small numbers that should not
[13:41:06] <GerardM->	 being able to set this is what is at issue
[13:43:03] <GerardM->	 it does not follow the nice lines of the existing bot frameworks
[13:47:24] <lazowik>	 hmm?
[13:47:38] <lazowik>	 multichill: what's wrong with what?
[13:48:01] <multichill>	 lazowik ?
[13:48:26] <lazowik>	 well, you're complaining about some bot if I undrestand correctly
[13:48:30] <lazowik>	 I'm just curious
[13:49:07] <multichill>	 No, I blocked it
[13:49:19] <lazowik>	 ah
[13:49:24] <multichill>	 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Flooding_of_Special:RecentChanges
[13:50:22] <multichill>	 lazowik: ^^
[13:50:30] <lazowik>	 yep, thanks, reading
[13:50:55] <GerardM->	 it leaves out that the question of what is a bot and when it should be set as that
[13:52:41] <multichill>	 That's a bot GerardM-. No doubt about that. Read https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Bots
[13:53:38] <multichill>	 "Bots (also known as robots) are tools used to make edits without the necessity of human decision-making. Bots can add interwiki links, labels, descriptions, statements, sources, and can even create items, among other things. Bots have the ability to make edits very quickly and can disrupt Wikidata if they are incorrectly designed or operated."
[13:53:44] <lazowik>	 anything that makes an edit and is not a human is a bot
[13:53:59] <lazowik>	 even if you set a call to api to add one sitelink at a given time
[13:54:04] <lazowik>	 that's a bot :p
[13:54:20] <lazowik>	 though it probably wouldn't need a separate account with a flag
[13:54:40] <lazowik>	 and if I understand correctly
[13:54:48] <lazowik>	 the real problem is flooding recent changes
[13:55:23] <GerardM->	 That was discussed and I asked for a method to set edits as bot to prevent flooding
[13:55:26] <GerardM->	 that was denied
[13:55:36] <GerardM->	 because of some fusy arguments
[13:56:03] <GerardM->	 taking away the tools is not an option either
[13:56:27] <multichill>	 Now you're turning things around GerardM-. At the moment the tool you're using is not using the botflag
[13:56:32] <multichill>	 Tool needs to be fixed first
[13:56:36] <GerardM->	 so ... a tool can be truly interactive ... for instance from Reasonator to add a label or image
[13:56:53] <GerardM->	 these tools have been around for months
[13:56:59] <GerardM->	 and now there is a crisis ??
[13:57:02] <GerardM->	 REALLY ??
[13:57:15] <GerardM->	 now a decision needs to be forced ???
[13:57:25] <multichill>	 I don't see a crisis, just a blocked malfunctioning bot
[13:57:40] <GerardM->	 i see a crisis because you take away my tools
[13:57:44] <multichill>	 We have policies not for the easy times, but for the hard times
[13:57:56] <lazowik>	 GerardM-: why not use a bot account then?
[13:58:09] <multichill>	 lazowik: He tried, but the tool doesn't use the botflag
[13:58:18] <lazowik>	 ah, it can't even?
[13:58:22] <GerardM->	 and we can solve issues in a timely way ... no need for making a crisis out of it
[13:58:23] <multichill>	 Dunno, never used it
[13:59:43] <lazowik>	 GerardM-: can you link to "That was discussed and I asked for a method to set edits as bot to prevent flooding" ?
[14:00:52] <GerardM->	 not now ... am about to leave where I am
[14:00:58] <lazowik>	 sure
[15:03:09] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] wmde/WikibaseQueryEngine/dmv/b8f43d9 : jeroendedauw The build passed. http://travis-ci.org/wmde/WikibaseQueryEngine/builds/24390020
[15:58:13] <GerardM->	 AutoList has been substantially throttled
[15:58:32] <GerardM->	 a patch has gone into bugzilla
[15:58:42] <GerardM->	 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64829
[17:16:34] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE__: Around?
[17:36:13] <hoo>	 aude: https://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/jobs/24376432 any idea?
[17:46:48] <hoo>	 aude: That's https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58881 I guess, right? :/
[17:46:53] <hoo|away>	 damn
[18:34:35] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] wmde/WikibaseQueryEngine/dbal/d8abd48 : jeroendedauw The build has errored. http://travis-ci.org/wmde/WikibaseQueryEngine/builds/24400722
[18:46:37] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] wmde/WikibaseQueryEngine/dbal/eec80ac : jeroendedauw The build has errored. http://travis-ci.org/wmde/WikibaseQueryEngine/builds/24400860
[18:47:35] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] wmde/WikibaseQueryEngine/tests/847881a : jeroendedauw The build passed. http://travis-ci.org/wmde/WikibaseQueryEngine/builds/24400972
[19:10:09] <addshore>	 hoo: around? ;p
[19:10:42] <hoo>	 Yes!
[19:11:06] <addshore>	 fancy making 2 single character changes for me relatingto huggle version numbers again? :D
[19:11:16] <addshore>	 version:2.1.23
[19:11:20] <addshore>	 https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Huggle/Config
[19:11:23] <addshore>	 https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Huggle/Config
[19:11:29] <addshore>	 Thanks in advance ;p
[19:11:49] <hoo>	 on it :D
[19:12:36] <hoo>	 ... done
[19:12:47] <addshore>	 ty :)
[19:21:09] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Hoo man: [C: 04-1] "Minor stuff" (035 comments) [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/125886 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/63486) (owner: 10Bene)
[20:14:40] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/master/1bcd180 : Translation updater bot The build is still failing. http://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/builds/24405565
[20:15:30] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10WikidataJenkins: "Build Successful" [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131399 (owner: 10L10n-bot)
[21:38:22] <addshore>	 my test wiki has partily died :(
[21:38:53] <hoo>	 Partily? Did it party to hard? :P
[21:38:54] <hoo>	 :D
[21:40:13] <addshore>	 it hasnt been touched in a week, a pull everything and run update and now i cant login due to the classic annoying cookie error :P
[21:41:31] <addshore>	 dont think I can be bothered to fix it now :/ and all I wanted to do was write a wee bit of js
[21:45:17] <JeroenDeDauw>	 just don't have a wiki, then it can't break
[21:45:23] <addshore>	 :P
[21:45:27] <addshore>	 thats cheating ;p
[21:45:30] <JeroenDeDauw>	 works for me
[21:45:33] <JeroenDeDauw>	 whaaat
[22:25:09] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10Hoo man: [WIP] Don't defer error reporting in the parser functions [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131410 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/55347) 
[22:30:27] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10WikidataJenkins: [V: 032] "Build Successful" [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131410 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/55347) (owner: 10Hoo man)