[01:48:21] <ttk>	 howdy, folks.  I'm a software engineer, and have been pulling structured data out of wikipedia dumps on an ad-hoc basis for some years.  A friend pointed me at wikidata, and it looks really awesome.
[01:48:38] <\pi{r^2}>	 Great!
[01:49:24] <legoktm>	 woo :D
[01:49:38] <ttk>	 I'm plowing my way through the wikidata-devel mailing list archives, and the introductory pages.  If there's a document describing the overall architecture of wikidata, I haven't found it yet, but have a glimmering from context.
[01:50:24] <ttk>	 Could you sanity-check my impression, please, to tell me if I understand this correctly?  An item instance in wikidata contains the actual markup for the elements in a wiki page?  And "indexing" involves putting the two together, and inserting the marked-up data into the appropriate indexes in ES?
[01:50:49] <\pi{r^2}>	 It doesn't contain all the Wikipedia text.
[01:51:08] <ttk>	 just the text which is marked up in the wikidata item, right?
[01:51:14] <\pi{r^2}>	 It only contains certain properties that can be used in infoboxes, the interwiki links, etc.
[01:51:17] <\pi{r^2}>	 Yes.
[01:51:22] <legoktm>	 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Data_model and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Technical_proposal
[01:51:27] <ttk>	 thank you
[01:51:37] <ttk>	 hey! :-) thanks, legoktm!
[01:52:06] <JeroenDeDauw>	 Our most ancient document :o
[02:48:17] <\pi{r^2}>	 hi JohnFLewis 
[02:48:34] <\pi{r^2}>	 JohnLewis: are you the real one?
[02:48:49] <JohnLewis>	 \pi{r^2}: The cloak says yes :P
[07:51:15] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Hoo man: Fix the id preset in SpecialModifyEntity::getFormElements (031 comment) [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104357 (owner: 10Hoo man)
[07:54:26] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS3) 10Hoo man: Improve special spage entity id handling [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104357 
[07:55:14] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Hoo man: "Also fix the bad assumption that id == page title (per aude)" [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104357 (owner: 10Hoo man)
[09:58:47] <hoo>	 aude: hey... around?
[10:03:39] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10Hoo man: New Lua interface to create infoboxes [WIP] [extensions/Capiunto] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/105157 
[10:08:19] <hoo>	 looks like I'm more or less alone now... wow
[10:08:20] <hoo>	 :/
[10:08:34] <hoo|away>	 time for a break. then
[10:20:27] * aude  waves

[10:24:30] <GerardM->	 hoi aude... what is going to happen tomorrow with  https://wikisource.org will it be included ?
[10:24:50] <aude>	 tomorrow, nothing.... it's saturday :)
[10:25:28] <aude>	 i don't know yet about oldwikisource... depends how easily we can do 
[10:46:40] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS4) 10Aude: Improve special spage entity id handling [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104357 (owner: 10Hoo man)
[10:47:40] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Aude: [C: 032] Improve special page entity id handling [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104357 (owner: 10Hoo man)
[10:50:52] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Abandoned) 10Aude: Don't run OutputPageParserOutput client hook during tests [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102376 (owner: 10Aude)
[10:51:18] <sDrewth>	 rschen7754: which bit about "read-only" re Wikisource?  Not sure that I understand  the question
[10:51:57] <hoo>	 aude: Is Jens around today? He's not on IRC, but he sometimes forgets that...
[10:52:03] <aude>	 no
[10:52:09] * aude  is lonely

[10:52:11] <hoo>	 :(
[10:52:20] <hoo>	 DanielK_WMDE_: Got a minute, maybe?
[10:52:28] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Improve special page entity id handling [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104357 (owner: 10Hoo man)
[10:52:36] <hoo>	 oh :)
[10:54:24] <hoo>	 aude: Do you think this https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/105157/1/tests/phpunit/output/BasicRowTest.lua is bearable as an interface to create Infoboxes from Lua?
[10:54:36] <hoo>	 Pretty basic example, I know
[10:54:37] * aude  click

[10:55:52] <aude>	 it looks ok to me
[10:56:19] * legoktm  waves

[10:56:43] <hoo>	 I've been able to port almost all example infobox completely to it... it only lacks some enwiki specific mess (which I'll make injectable) and some advanced functionality we probably want for Wikibase
[10:56:47] <hoo>	 hi legoktm :)
[10:57:07] <aude>	 nice
[10:57:21] <legoktm>	 that looks awesome
[10:58:23] <hoo>	 :)
[10:58:53] <hoo>	 legoktm: Are you into Lua?
[10:59:17] <legoktm>	 not really, I just know enough to edit the templates I want to
[10:59:55] <hoo>	 Ok... I have a lot Lua code that needs reviewing
[11:00:03] <hoo>	 legoktm: If you do templates, https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/101874 might be interesting to you
[11:00:21] <legoktm>	 oh yeah I saw that
[11:00:45] <legoktm>	 sounds good to me :D
[11:01:09] <hoo>	 I took the html builder from enwiki and totally overhauled it
[11:01:15] <hoo>	 also wrote tests etc.
[11:01:38] <hoo>	 we need taht in Capiunto
[11:14:39] <sDrewth>	 thx legoktm, got told that would take some time, clearly I am sufficiently well-trained :-)
[11:15:20] <legoktm>	 sDrewth: np. there are a few other users who did basically the same thing so it was pretty simple :P
[11:16:04] <sDrewth>	 non-unique again <eyeroll>
[12:26:42] <hoo>	 yay, finally my bot is on Labs \o/
[12:27:43] <legoktm>	 woo
[12:27:44] <hoo>	 (not a Wikidata bot, though... don't have the flag there)
[12:27:51] <legoktm>	 boo
[12:28:32] <hoo>	 legoktm: Is the process to get +bot terribly hard?
[12:28:37] <legoktm>	 No
[12:28:46] * hoo  not a fan of endless discussions and questions

[12:29:02] <legoktm>	 <hoobot> can I have a bot flag please <legoktm> {{done}}!
[12:29:08] <legoktm>	 that's basically how it works.
[12:29:36] <hoo>	 heh :)
[12:30:18] <legoktm>	 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:RFBOT there's a little bit of paperwork you have to fill out
[12:30:21] <legoktm>	 but its pretty simple
[12:31:46] <hoo>	 587697 what an ugly user id :P I should have logged in with my bot earlier
[12:38:28] <hoo>	 legoktm: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Bot/Hoo_Bot
[12:39:10] * legoktm  facepalms

[12:39:13] <hoo>	 ewk
[12:39:24] <legoktm>	 at least say what you're going to use it for
[12:39:36] <legoktm>	 like
[12:39:40] <legoktm>	 "adding claims to properties"
[12:39:40] <aude>	 sounds like multi-chill bot
[12:39:43] <aude>	 does everything
[12:39:52] <legoktm>	 or that
[12:39:55] <legoktm>	 "does everything"
[12:40:22] <hoo>	 usually that is... I look some stuff up in the DB, compile a list using unix tools :P
[12:40:29] <aude>	 "Just want to play around with WikiData and bots."
[12:40:33] <hoo>	 :D
[12:40:36] <hoo>	 aude: +1
[12:40:37] <aude>	 what multi-chill says :)
[12:41:00] <hoo>	 One of my ideas was to unlink deleted pages, if that's still an issue
[12:41:04] <hoo>	 haven't checked in a bit
[12:41:17] <hoo>	 other stuff is of course adding claims
[12:44:43] <hoo>	 legoktm: Do you know if anyone is doing these consistency check things?
[12:44:56] <legoktm>	 constraint violations?
[12:45:23] <hoo>	 legoktm: Not really... just comparing sitelinks with current state on the clients
[12:45:30] <legoktm>	 oh
[12:45:31] <legoktm>	 nope
[12:45:42] <legoktm>	 don't think so
[12:45:54] <hoo>	 ok
[12:48:50] <legoktm>	 I'm gonna sleep now, I'll approve it later on
[13:52:10] <GerardM->	 hoo do you have a moment
[13:52:35] <hoo>	 GerardM-: I guess so ;)
[13:53:43] <GerardM->	 yesterday we talked about automated description
[13:53:45] <GerardM->	 s
[13:54:20] <hoo>	 yes
[13:54:35] <GerardM->	 my question is are there some basic values that come with a new installation .. things like instance of, class and subclass
[13:54:54] <hoo>	 No, nothing
[13:55:09] <hoo>	 Wikibase itself ships with *no* properties
[13:55:44] <GerardM->	 so in essence because Wikibase does not support the basic items of an ontology we have to have manual descriptions ... ???
[13:56:50] <hoo>	 Well, Wikibase isn't supposed to know anything about it's data
[13:57:43] <GerardM->	 as you may know I do not care for stuff when it has no practical implications
[13:58:18] <hoo>	 Well, it has practical implications... eg. what we're currently talking about
[13:58:20] <GerardM->	 the argument that was used against my pov is that automatic disambiguation relies on it
[13:58:59] <GerardM->	 (items like class et al)
[14:00:34] <GerardM->	 so ... when Wikibase insists on having manual descriptions, it defeats the argument for ontology structures
[14:00:46] <GerardM->	 is that a fair point or am I missing something ?
[14:03:07] <hoo>	 GerardM-: It's also about keeping logic and data separate... as told, feel free to write up a bot push automated summaries into Wikidata, if the community agrees, but there certainly wont be a description generator thing in Wikibase
[14:04:45] <GerardM->	 hoo a bot creating fixed text is contraproductive.. when the data changes you may want to change the text
[14:05:33] <hoo>	 that's something that needs to be checked
[14:06:20] <GerardM->	 hoo is it reasonable to expect that any wikibase instance is likely to implement items like class, subclass of and instance ?
[14:07:46] <hoo>	 GerardM-: In a Wikidata-like installation, sure
[14:07:59] <hoo>	 but not in the generic case
[14:13:00] <GerardM->	 so automated descriptions could be configurable by indicating the items for properties like class, subclass, instance of .. ?
[14:13:40] <hoo>	 No, that would destroy the separation of data storage and processing, as already told
[14:14:08] <hoo>	 I'm totally happy to help and answer technical question, but I think we've slightly lost topic here
[14:14:30] <GerardM->	 it would not as what item is eventually used is open.
[14:15:47] <rschen7754>	 sDrewth: if the bot removes the links from wikisource
[14:18:18] <sDrewth>	 okay, though how is that read-only?
[14:24:38] <hashar>	 jenkins is restarting sorry
[14:32:50] <GerardM->	 Widar is not working atm ... it says: "The database has been automatically locked while the slave database servers catch up to the master"
[14:33:06] <GerardM->	 where can I say its status ?
[14:35:21] <rschen7754>	 sDrewth: it only reads from Wikisource, not writing to it
[14:35:36] <rschen7754>	 if the links aren't removed
[14:35:54] <GerardM->	 see not say
[14:38:22] <sDrewth>	 okay rschen7754, gotcha
[14:39:17] <sDrewth>	 GerardM-: have you tried lookin at http://noc.wikimedia.org/ ?
[14:40:11] <sDrewth>	 ugh! way too late to decipher those lag pages
[15:31:21] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Jeroen De Dauw: Improve special page entity id handling (031 comment) [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104357 (owner: 10Hoo man)
[15:35:09] <hoo>	 legoktm: There? ;)
[15:45:52] <hoo>	 aude: Is your bot's code reusable?
[15:46:03] * hoo  is looking for an easy way to remove sitelinks from an item

[15:46:13] <hoo>	 don't really want to hack stuff on my own
[16:27:55] <aude>	 hoo: my bot doesn't handle sitelinks
[16:28:13] <aude>	 probably pywikibot is the easiest to use
[16:29:54] <hoo>	 mh
[16:30:28] <aude>	 if you are willing to do python :)
[16:39:21] <hoo>	 aude: I am... already hacked up something myself... the task is easy so that should work for now
[16:39:39] <hoo>	 Although I produced terrible code using a terrible API abstraction I wrote years ago
[16:39:57] <hoo>	 had to fill a night (jet lag), so I wrote a python API abstraction
[16:48:46] <JeroenDeDauw>	 hehe
[16:48:57] <JeroenDeDauw>	 don't code when you are tired :) you'll just end up regretting it later
[16:49:11] <JeroenDeDauw>	 *non-trivial-code
[16:50:26] <hoo>	 Yeah... that thing really is horrible
[16:51:25] <hoo>	 not as horrible as EditPage... but reasonable ugly
[16:55:01] <hoo>	 yay, AbuseFilter https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Hoo+Bot
[16:55:50] <JohnLewis>	 hoo: Be happy. It could be hitting Filter 5 :p
[16:56:34] <hoo>	 JohnLewis: I don't drive any of these bots... I guess there code is even worse
[16:56:53] <JohnLewis>	 :p
[16:57:05] <hoo>	 So that they feel physical pain then having to fix their spam bot :P
[17:01:31] <hoo>	 ok, been able to bypass AF :P
[17:01:45] <hoo>	 I should find the idiot developing that extension :D
[17:25:58] <greg-g>	 Lydia_WMDE: hey, how firm is the '13th date for wikisource?
[17:26:10] <Lydia_WMDE>	 greg-g: 14th - pretty firm
[17:26:17] <greg-g>	 better :)
[17:26:23] <greg-g>	 that was going to be my suggestion :)
[17:26:26] <Lydia_WMDE>	 heh
[17:26:28] <greg-g>	 ok, thanks!
[17:26:37] <Lydia_WMDE>	 sure :)
[17:26:47] <greg-g>	 always good collaborating with you :P
[17:26:54] <Lydia_WMDE>	 \o/
[17:26:57] <Lydia_WMDE>	 likewise!
[17:27:00] <Lydia_WMDE>	 :P
[17:27:06] <rschen7754>	 Lydia_WMDE: how is oldwikisource handled?
[17:27:39] <Lydia_WMDE>	 rschen7754: i need to talk to katie and daniel next week to see what the status is. worst case it might be "not yet"
[17:27:43] <rschen7754>	 ok
[17:27:58] <rschen7754>	 but you're thinking of having special support for it?
[17:28:06] <hoo>	 no
[17:28:23] <hoo>	 not for now at least
[17:28:30] <rschen7754>	 oh
[17:38:36] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Bene: Create more tests for special pages (031 comment) [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102495 (owner: 10Bene)
[17:41:19] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Hoo man: Create more tests for special pages (031 comment) [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102495 (owner: 10Bene)
[17:43:21] <hoo>	 legoktm: There? :)
[22:25:23] <gangleri_back>	 Hi! can someone give me geo cordiantes for Carrer de Palau, 17 ES-08180 MOIÀ ?
[23:27:23] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10Zfilipin: Updated Ruby, RubyGems and Firefox [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/105409 
[23:31:47] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Cmcmahon: [C: 032] "maintenance" [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/105409 (owner: 10Zfilipin)
[23:36:06] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Abandoned) 10Zfilipin: Updated Ruby gems [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102431 (owner: 10Zfilipin)
[23:40:05] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Updated Ruby, RubyGems and Firefox [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/105409 (owner: 10Zfilipin)
[23:47:29] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase#1513 (master - 12a9634 : Zeljko Filipin): The build was broken.
[23:47:29] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/compare/97e68203fc5a...12a9634c738c
[23:47:29] <travis-ci>	 [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/builds/16346370