[00:34:15] Reedy: yes [07:38:04] [[Wikidata:Wikisource]] [07:38:07] are we ready [07:38:08] ? [08:30:17] I am going to upgrade Jenkins [09:45:48] Lydia_WMDE: Ist Daniel (ab) heute wieder da? Und/oder Jens? [09:46:54] hoo: daniel nicht, jens eventuell [09:48:11] Ok, hab viel an Capiunto gemacht und es funktioniert jetzt langsam, weshalb jemand die Schnittstellen "abnehmen" sollte :P [09:50:34] :) cool [09:50:43] daniel sollte am montag wieder da sein [09:50:53] Ok, gut :) [10:10:50] GerardM-: The instance of thing you're currently doing should IMO probably be done by a bot/ with a bot flag instead? [10:12:07] You already made 11k edits today [10:13:43] In wikidata, are we doing anything about the reduced ability to search due to our name structure? [10:14:27] For instance, we have "John Foster" (numbers of) and using Magnus' tool it searches VIAF but it doesn't do too well when there are lots of results [10:14:53] Yet if you modify the name to be something like "Foster, John 1762" then it finds the person easily [10:15:20] hoo [10:15:53] I am using Widar... that allows me to things interactively and do it quickly [10:15:57] now, I know that relates to how Magnus has done his tool, though it would seem to be a long term ability to ping a data base [10:16:14] GerardM-: I know that, but it still floods the RC [10:16:23] widar? [10:16:31] Don't you have a bot account? You should be able to use Widar with that either [10:16:38] sDrewth: http://tools.wmflabs.org/widar/index.php [10:17:00] my botting is done with AWB [10:17:07] and we aren't there yet [10:17:13] I do have a bot account but on a typical day I do not use Widar that much [10:17:21] <- dinosaur [10:18:05] what is AWB ? [10:18:12] auto wiki browser [10:18:26] [w:en:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] [10:18:38] urk, short a [ [10:21:38] hoo: if using Widar, are you suggesting/stating that one should use a bot account? [10:22:06] sDrewth: Doesn't really depend on using Widar (or whatever tool) but on the amount of edits you are going to perform [10:22:29] (personal opinion) [10:23:49] at the moment, I doubt my editing style is a concern for RC per session [10:24:06] though cumulatively it is adding up [10:29:10] is there a help page for Widar? [10:29:27] when I find something where I can use Widar I will, it works so well for adding lots of edits [10:29:29] yes [10:29:43] GerardM-: mh, interesting, I never tried it myself yet [10:30:26] I am now adding "instance of" "human" to years when people died [10:31:13] the query has something like a third that are not known to be human [10:32:33] GerardM-: where are the instructions on how to operate the tool? [10:36:15] you create the query definition with wdq OR you use a category of a wikipedia [10:36:16] ah, I see, you need to use other tools [10:36:22] indeed [10:36:38] but when you use a category, it is easy [10:36:59] the only thing that is really specific is adding the OAUTH authorisation [10:37:31] hoo [10:37:38] yes? [10:37:40] with wikisource coming online in a week or so, it will start to have ore value for me [10:37:42] I mention Widar often on my blog [10:38:19] you probably want it to work on Wikisource... ask Magnus about it or write a patch [10:39:39] then again given that you can specify Wikipedia ... it may even work [10:39:50] we need to get onboard first [10:43:43] true.. I wonder if Wikisource and the new data type will arrive together [10:44:28] Lydia_WMDE: ^ [10:44:52] new data type? [10:44:59] I so cannot keep up [10:45:31] no [10:45:43] the current plan is to have wikisource only in the next deployment [10:45:48] and then a week later quantities [10:46:19] oh, I did see quantities, and we don't need them ;-) [10:47:01] oh yes we do [10:47:22] WSes? [10:48:51] GerardM-: I am clearly brain dead about how to get the tool to apply the items. I can get an autolist up, can select a couple, but none of the links/buttons applies [10:51:41] did you click on the Widar button ? [10:52:21] at http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html?q=claim[106%3A36180]%20AND%20claim[569]%20AND%20claim[570]%20AND%20noclaim[214] there is no button [10:52:26] you have to authorise its use first AND set the tick box that you did authoriuse it [10:52:35] all authorised [10:52:39] THEN you will get the CLAIM button [10:52:55] okay, I have a claim button [10:53:10] Click that one [10:54:04] okay, which won't work for a VIAF query, but I get the gist of it [10:57:01] what is it that you want to achieve ... authors WITHOUT a VIAF ? [10:59:01] I was looking at that just as a view [10:59:30] I got it to work for Richmond football club players [11:00:04] and took a bath ... [11:00:05] Bath-processing 6 items... [11:00:27] the English language will get you every time [11:02:14] :) [11:02:37] I am making sure that people who died in the last century were human [11:04:08] sounds like a fair call [11:05:46] :D [11:06:46] mind you now sure that Stalin, Hitler and others qualify as human [11:06:50] not [11:10:54] wish there was an easier way to do descriptions [11:12:55] Yeah... although I think with a smart semi automatic script thingy you could generate many [11:13:04] * hoo has a lot of ideas, yet so few time [11:15:05] sDrewth: I wish nobody added descriptions [11:15:17] huh? [11:15:26] the automated descriptions of Magnus are much better [11:15:52] oh really? [11:15:57] AND it works in any language given labels [11:16:24] so what is the benefit of something static that is often of dubious use ? [11:17:23] GerardM-: That's probably a little complicated to explain... for once Magnus's descriptions probably aren't 100% accurate in all fields/ languages, also they are Wikidata specific, so can't go into Wikibase [11:17:47] but I guess if the community agrees they could be fed into the descriptions fields (at least in some cases) [11:18:55] hoo ... that sounds like a rediculous argument [11:18:57] .. [11:19:20] GerardM-: no they are not [11:19:22] What is Wikibase but the software that generates thing [11:19:23] s [11:19:39] so the routine used by Magnus CAN be included in wikibase [11:19:43] Wikibase is meant to store data, not to process it [11:20:01] so ? [11:20:16] it would be helpful to back and approve descriptions [11:20:45] it would be helpful when there is an option to only see the automated descriptions [11:21:10] the descriptions are more in my way than that they help [11:21:56] I will remove wrong descriptions, I willl only occasionaly change them [11:22:21] when tidying up "cinematographer" like I am doing, "Person M (yyyy-yyyy)" is not helpful [11:22:32] if all the people fields were completed, maybe so [11:22:59] if you add a description in English, it does not help me in Dutch [11:23:09] and then trying to piece together series of data, "Film" is not sufficiently descriptive [11:23:10] when you add statements, you do [11:23:39] add occupation and it is part of the description [11:23:42] aude: around? [11:23:58] yes GerardM- most of what I am working with is without all that stuff [11:24:11] ? [11:24:40] aude: someone asked if we'll do a deployment of wikisource on test.wikidata.org [11:24:49] before going to wikidata.orgf [11:24:58] should be okay to do [11:25:07] k [11:25:41] we don't even need to wait until thursday, although i want to check [11:25:49] myself for issues first [11:25:53] i think none [11:26:10] how are we going to handle oldwikisource, btw :P [11:26:29] aude: ok [11:27:20] hoo: is that in incubator? [11:27:31] * aude not sure what [11:27:45] aude: nope https://wikisource.org/ I mean [11:27:57] which is != en.wikisource [11:28:13] same way we handle https://wikipedia.org [11:28:25] what we call mul WS, and its failure to interwiki well [11:28:39] * aude can't imagine what is different [11:28:48] aude: We handle wikipedia.org? [11:28:52] it's just static html [11:28:54] not we = wikidata [11:29:42] I'm a bit confused now [11:29:54] wikisource.org is a multilingual wiki where actual data is on [11:30:01] while wikipedia.org is just a landing page [11:30:06] * aude looks [11:43:45] hoo indeed [11:44:28] I have made the argument repeatedly that one Wikisource properly tooled and internationalised would serve better than then current hodgepodge [11:45:53] won't happen, though [11:46:01] given that Wikisource does not get resources ... [11:47:48] back to descriptions ... Widar and WDQ use automated descriptions [11:48:21] and you will notice that given enough statements it is really descriptive and usable for disambiguation [11:48:54] an other advantage is that it prevents any discussion (on the descriptions as there is no POV) [11:49:28] but it's probably using alot of Wikidata specific logic [11:53:35] and that logic can be replicated [11:53:55] if anything it could be / should be defined by the ontology in use [11:54:11] and THAT would make sense [11:54:39] when I say for Golden Tulip award is a award ... the description is award [11:54:55] makes sense does it not ? [11:58:20] aude: See what I meant? [11:58:43] it seems it has it's own site group [11:58:51] "sources" [11:59:01] and the others are wikisource? [11:59:06] yes [11:59:16] so we wont cover it? [11:59:22] this is totally not documented [11:59:29] ... [11:59:53] it's not in the sites table [11:59:58] what? [12:01:13] i suppose it can be added to the sites table [12:01:27] and then? [12:01:29] but it would form a separate section on Wikidata then [12:01:41] it still stays multilingual [12:01:54] same problem as with the incubator/betawv [12:03:44] ewww [12:03:51] it's more like commons [12:03:56] yep [12:03:59] "sources" is the lang [12:04:10] it's in the wikipedia group, like commons, wikidata, mediawiki.org etc [12:04:44] i don't know where best to put it... seems logical grouped with wikisource [12:05:23] but would require a bit more tweaking of code etc. to make it work or [12:05:32] Indeed [12:05:40] we could "hack" and put wikisource as site group in sites table, but i don't like the inconsistency [12:05:58] i think we could support it when we support incubator [12:07:05] Well, I feared that would happen [12:07:25] :( [12:07:55] Someone has to tell the community... they expect it to be included (I think) [12:08:07] do they? [12:08:27] I think so [12:08:29] Lydia_WMDE: ^ [12:09:37] hoo: noted [12:09:49] * aude wonders how they would like it included [12:10:00] * Lydia_WMDE wishes this incosistent mess in wiki setups would stop [12:10:06] * aude too [12:10:13] hoo: at least according to the oberview page it is treated seperately [12:10:13] ;) [12:10:27] *over [12:10:28] there is some discussions in https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:Wikisource#Specific_points [12:10:29] Charleston: At least something... [12:10:35] we still have for commons it saying "English (commonswiki)" [12:10:38] when adding site links [12:10:49] we need to improve that [12:11:01] Yeah, it's not perfect yet [12:11:02] or else it would be "English (sourceswiki)" or something odd [12:11:17] i don't know how oldwikisource figures in with being a site id [12:11:21] Which is totally not confusing with English (wikisource) [12:11:27] it's at least different than the dbname [12:11:49] can we go and hit the person who set this up on the head for good meassure? [12:12:03] heh [12:12:25] +1 [12:12:38] everything is a wikipedia! if it's not lang + (wikivoyage|wiktionary|...) [12:13:02] aude: the problem with OldWS is that the content is /not/ in English but rather in any language which has no own Wikisource :p [12:13:12] Charleston: right [12:13:21] there is a proposition to put oldwikisource in mul.wikisource [12:13:25] even more complicated [12:13:47] Yep [12:13:49] supporting a "mul" language code would be good [12:14:04] not so trivial [12:14:43] totally not trivial for now... I don't even want to know at how many points our code would break [12:38:15] Lydia_WMDE the rationale for Wikisource in this way is that it allows for sources that are unlikely to ever get their own wikisource [12:38:25] old greek comes to mind among many others [12:38:31] seems a good idea [12:38:59] GerardM-: that's fine - what is causing the issue is doing one this way and others in another way [12:39:11] inconsistency sucks [12:39:47] or we need to figure out how to make the "sites" system to accommodate it / be more flexible and wikibase to handle it [12:39:56] also an issue with commons, in my opinion [12:40:27] it's not really an english wiki specifically [12:54:24] (03PS2) 10Aude: Handle copyright message in new class, with tests [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104946 [12:56:40] (03CR) 10Aude: "i18n message (e.g. wikibase-shortcopyrightwarning) should be moved to lib... can do in a follow-up or in this patch once it gets +1 or rea" [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104946 (owner: 10Aude) [12:57:38] Lydia_WMDE: would you take a look at how we might handle the copyright message for wikidata... the code doesn't matter much [12:57:59] aude: ok [12:58:26] but what it does is allow specifying different url and text for the license (e.g. CC-0) for data vs. CC-BY-SA 3.0 [12:58:54] the actual text of the wikibase-shortcopyrightwarning is same as what we had, except for the url and name of the license [12:59:42] http://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Wikibase-shortcopyrightwarning/en [13:00:02] http://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Wikidata-shortcopyrightwarning/en [13:00:30] wikibase-save will get passed to the message [13:00:58] aude: what i am seeing makes sense to me [13:01:02] ok [13:01:14] we're not changing the wording at all... the default seems suitable [13:01:19] *nod* [13:01:26] * aude doesn't want to upset the lawyers :) [13:01:30] hehe [13:02:04] but we can't use the default completely (e.g. $wgRightsUrl / $wgRightsText) because those apply to wikitext namespaces [13:03:33] aude: Don't know in which shape your ar is... but https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A3%D8%B3%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%86%D8%B2_%D9%83%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%AF_2:_%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%B3%D9%83%D9%81%D8%B1%D9%8A is that adding any value? [13:04:02] gah, long url [13:04:17] if it's the thing multi-chill had me see, then no [13:04:36] aude: Nah, someone is splitting up an item about a single topic [13:04:41] as far as I can tell [13:04:48] just becuase of that thing on arwiki [13:05:10] which is as far as google translate can tell me, just a redirect-like article [13:05:33] it looks kind of like a redirect [13:05:42] * aude doesn't understand the reason [13:05:48] hey aude [13:05:52] hi hashar [13:06:16] i will be late. had lynch with wife and I am still dowtown [13:06:20] ok [13:06:23] no hurry [13:06:33] should be there in half an hour [13:06:36] k [13:06:53] hashar: I hope you really had lunch with your wife :D [13:07:08] aude: Going to be bold and turn it into a redirect then [13:07:15] ok [13:07:15] I did. she is on vacations hehe [13:07:22] see yiu [13:07:28] see you [13:08:01] time to look at jeroen's patch again [13:08:25] Lydia_WMDE: when does tobi come back? [13:09:12] aude: he does not have any vacation in his calendar anymore so i'd assume today [13:09:19] nope [13:09:23] it's me an jens [13:09:23] hmm [13:09:25] and* [13:09:26] ok [13:09:44] maybe he is getting rid of some over-time then [13:10:03] Jens is in the officE? [13:10:08] if i merge jeroen's patch, then it means no jenkins and only travis running after merge [13:10:21] * aude not too thrilled about [13:10:55] even if we did live without jenkins so long in the beginning, not sure that's good [13:11:40] * hoo cries over our bad reverting options [13:11:48] https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q2075360&action=history [13:11:56] Sorry. :( [13:12:16] sjoerddebruin: Any idea what that guy is doing? [13:12:24] Weird stuff. [13:12:27] Except of moving an item completly to another one? [13:12:28] no idea [13:12:30] yeah... [13:12:36] Merge the new one with the old one. [13:12:44] seems like merging [13:12:45] should work [13:12:54] doing hard way [13:13:08] as I've cleared up the pseudo-redirect on arwiki [13:13:15] I even have editor rights there for some reason :P [13:13:22] :) [13:16:55] sjoerddebruin: Will you do the merge, busy with other stuff now [13:19:04] (03PS3) 10Aude: Handle copyright message in new class, with tests [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104946 [13:20:09] so many things still in review.... [13:20:22] Yep [13:20:33] actually some got merged like term box [13:20:42] I merged a bit of stuff also [13:20:46] yep [13:21:52] (03CR) 10Hoo man: [C: 032] "Documentation/ example only change in accordance with MediaWiki master, should be good to go." [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96459 (owner: 10Siebrand) [13:22:02] So, it’s merged again. [13:22:57] hmmm, core phpunit tests are still failing (in post-merge regression job) [13:23:22] sjoerddebruin: Thanks :) Deleted the duplicate now [13:23:23] * aude updates my patch for that [13:23:28] aude: Ewk [13:23:44] i have +1 but style suggestions [13:23:56] We also still see occasional segfaults with PHP 5.3 [13:24:00] yep [13:24:09] but travis isn't using the latest php 5.3 [13:24:14] oh [13:24:31] they were behind one version or so last that I checked [13:24:33] * aude wonders how many people know the core tests are failing [13:24:42] how many people know and don't care [13:25:02] only happens when running all the tests together, which is odd [13:25:20] but typical [13:25:24] * aude nods [13:26:15] (03CR) 10Hoo man: [C: 04-1] "Needs rebase, also per Jeroen" [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102643 (owner: 10Henning Snater) [13:27:21] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Remove underscore from class names LBFactory_* [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96459 (owner: 10Siebrand) [13:29:52] (03CR) 10Hoo man: [C: 04-1] Add messages to EntityContentTest assertions (032 comments) [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102407 (owner: 10Aude) [13:30:42] doh [13:32:48] (03CR) 10Hoo man: [C: 04-1] "not sure about this, maybe the unit tests should alter $wgHooks instead of this... yay for global state and static code" (031 comment) [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102376 (owner: 10Aude) [13:35:00] [travis-ci] wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase#1507 (master - 73da651 : jenkins-bot): The build was fixed. [13:35:00] [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/compare/e0b0cfa45153...73da6512b9c7 [13:35:00] [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/builds/16255635 [13:36:14] (03PS2) 10Aude: Make messages more detailed in EntityContentTest [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102407 [13:38:03] (03PS2) 10Aude: Don't run OutputPageParserOutput client hook during tests [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102376 [13:39:05] travis is still on PHP 5.3.27... maybe the failures are gone with 5.3.28 ?! [13:39:12] no idea [13:39:31] * aude has 5.3.27 and no segfaults [13:39:38] :( [13:40:23] I don't really want to debug that... I once dived into the PHP source code and it was horrible [13:40:26] I mean horrible [13:40:31] pretty sure it's still something being assumed Property [13:40:35] EditPage is almost nice compared to that [13:40:43] with type hint and it's an entityt [13:40:45] errr item [13:41:03] aude: Nah, probably some destructor is causing the segfault as it's happening other PHPunit is done [13:41:14] * after [13:41:48] hmmmm [13:42:51] All tests pass and phpunit is even telling us... and after that it segfaults... clearly something in the shutdown routines process is messing [13:42:57] ick [13:43:05] only php 5.3 [13:43:09] Yeah [13:43:18] at least that's an improvement [13:43:21] it's not random [13:43:28] Yes, it's a PHP problem, also [13:43:33] not our department any more [13:45:22] (03CR) 10Aude: "handling $wgHooks in each test might work, but might be difficult." [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102376 (owner: 10Aude) [13:45:35] (03CR) 10Hoo man: [C: 032] Make messages more detailed in EntityContentTest [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102407 (owner: 10Aude) [13:45:52] * aude runs core tests [13:47:31] re [13:47:38] hey [13:48:01] (03CR) 10Hoo man: "Mh... as this is causing problems *right now*, I guess I can overlook the fact that this is horrible if you add a big FIXME" [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102376 (owner: 10Aude) [13:48:52] i don't know how much the problems.... [13:48:59] depends how much one cares about core tests [13:49:21] Core tests are horrible... frankly I didn't run them in ages [13:49:42] aude: going to unleash "Enable Wikidata build on beta labs" https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/95996/ [13:49:50] wtf, get fatal error for elastica [13:49:53] hashar: ok [13:50:31] * aude tested it best i could on beta [13:50:42] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Make messages more detailed in EntityContentTest [extensions/Wikibase] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102407 (owner: 10Aude) [13:51:15] aude: Do you have shell access on beta? [13:51:41] i do [13:51:51] nice [13:52:22] still, it's mostly automated and not great to just poke around [13:52:50] but on christmas maybe no one notices :) [13:52:52] mh... in what condition are our other tests builds? [13:53:05] i think ok [13:53:07] like the lab projects Silke build up [13:53:14] oh, needs work [13:53:38] to update the puppet and use it for all our tests systems (and have just one test system) [13:54:01] a nice test cluster with a few clients would be nice [13:54:05] yes [13:54:15] * aude wants a test wikisource [13:54:20] needs* [13:54:28] heh [13:55:03] the puppet will be updated soonish (within next week or days) before labs is migratde [13:55:07] migrate* [13:55:08] d [13:55:27] just in case things go badly and our non puppetized test system dies [13:56:07] aude: ok change deployed on beta, not sure how to test it though [13:56:19] well, nothing broken [13:56:36] Yeah... things either break completely or the deps. are there [13:56:37] and when localisation update runs, not broken [13:56:47] wikidata beta looks fine [13:56:51] ahh [13:56:56] missing a bunch of messages though [13:57:00] I see [13:57:01] [] [13:57:24] ickand i htink completely unrelated to wikibase [13:57:39] but en wikipedia beta is broken on special:version [13:57:41] must be the message update which is broken : [13:57:44] http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:Version [13:57:50] 00:02:45.968 Unable to open list file /data/project/apache/common-local/php-master/../wmf-config/extension-list-labs. [13:57:51] :( [13:57:54] missing magic word [13:57:59] :( [13:58:08] pendingchangelevel [13:58:14] [travis-ci] wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase#1508 (master - 1b43fd3 : jenkins-bot): The build was broken. [13:58:14] [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/compare/73da6512b9c7...1b43fd330ec8 [13:58:14] [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/builds/16256638 [13:58:46] magic word is from flaggedrevs and either means it's new / localisation not run yet [13:58:51] or it's missing [13:58:52] /build/travis/script.sh: line 12: 2188 Segmentation fault php phpunit.php --group Wikibase [14:08:36] and it can't open another file Warning: file(extension-list-wikidata-labs): failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /data/project/apache/common-local/php-master/maintenance/mergeMessageFileList.php on line 116 [14:08:37] :D [14:09:11] why? [14:09:18] errr [14:09:55] some permission needs to be set or what? [14:09:58] or symlink? [14:10:12] could be symlink [14:10:48] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/104954 [14:10:49] should fix it [14:10:52] by adding $wmfConfigDir [14:11:04] ok [14:11:36] * aude wonders if symlink is needed [14:12:10] [travis-ci] mariushoch/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase#1 (master - 2cf3a88 : Marius Hoch): The build passed. [14:12:10] [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/mariushoch/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/compare/369f2586fb84...2cf3a889b478 [14:12:10] [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/mariushoch/mediawiki-extensions-Wikibase/builds/16257457 [14:12:47] i don't see a symlink for extension-list so maybe not [14:13:08]