[02:30:48] (PS1) Foxtrott: Show error message when form is submitted with erroneous input [extensions/SemanticFormsInputs] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/116216 [11:37:17] drobbins are you there? [12:02:27] I just want to have backlinks [12:07:38] Anyone else having trouble joining #mediawiki? [12:10:20] robolobster: no problem here [12:10:34] Thanks FoxT [12:11:15] BTW FoxT, any idea how I could make a query for a particular relation to provide an in-page list of backlinks? [12:11:32] As detailed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:What_links_here under Extensions [12:11:49] {{#ask:[[particular relation::{{PAGENAME}}]]}} [12:12:33] Do I need to put that into a tempalte, or can I just transclude that [12:12:37] Thanks btw! [12:13:01] I think you can just put it on the page [12:13:52] Also FoxT, what can I put instead of PAGENAME so that it will do that for the current page? [12:13:59] Or is PAGENAME a variable that represents the current page? [12:14:08] OMG IT WORKS [12:14:09] robolobster: Exactly. [12:14:11] I CANT BELIEVE IT [12:14:14] :D [12:14:17] This is the happiest day in the history of the universe. [12:14:19] THANK YOU [12:14:23] np [12:14:27] :) [12:14:57] Now all I need is a way for every single page to automatically include that string. [12:15:26] (I want backlinks on all my pages, I'm creating a sort of Personal Brain on wiki) [12:16:20] If I succeed at this, and automate wiki backups, I could effectively create a free, open source version of Personal Brain from theBrain.com [12:16:39] That might be pretty useful. [12:17:40] If your pages are uniform, you could look into Semantic Forms. It uses templates tocreate pages. The advantage is, that if you want to change all pages using this template, you just modify the template. [12:18:37] Nice! [12:18:43] Yes they are uniform in format [12:18:54] They'll just have text pretty much, and links to stuff. [12:20:44] FoxT it wouldn't be too hard to build this WikiBrain idea, I just need to figure out these templates, and automate backups. Other easy, small improvements would be even better, like autocomplete on links, etc. This might benefit from a group effort. How to organize this? Should I start a github fork? [12:20:49] Apologies for the barrage of questions :) [12:21:15] robolobster: I don't think there is a need for a fork [12:21:57] Semantic Forms is an extension just like Semantic MediaWiki [12:23:06] I see. It seems that "WikiBrain" would just be a collection of extensions (SMW, Visual Editor for autocomplete linking, Semantic Forms) with a few tweaks for usability. [12:23:28] That would be my approach [12:23:54] Is there a website where people go to organize around projects like these? So if someone wants to contribute, we can all go to that website and organize the work? [12:25:10] Hmm, there is a community wiki (http://smw.referata.com/), but I do not know how much it is used [12:25:47] I see. thanks for all the help, I'll look at Semantic Forms now :) [12:25:54] Generally I do not think that what you are doing (developing a package for a class of wikis) has been done before [12:26:13] Right. That figures... [12:26:36] It seems to be in the sweet spot of "technically not too challenging" and potentially useful [12:26:44] To start off and maybe gauge interest you could write to the mailing list [12:27:17] Thanks, that's a good idea. I'll mature my ideas a bit before I do though [12:28:21] By the way, FoxT, can I do that query for a generic link, ie. a link that is not a relation? [12:28:25] {{#ask:[[particular relation::{{PAGENAME}}]]}} [12:28:50] I don't think so. [12:29:47] I gue you could write an extension, that introduces a special property "links to" and then query on that property [12:30:19] (property=relation) [12:30:48] Right, yes. [12:31:22] The reason I prefer links, rather than properties/relations, is that I can write them in autocomplete with visual editor [12:31:35] That really helps minimizing redundant "thoughts" ini a personal brain [12:31:50] and illuminate unexpected connections between thoughts. it's a pretty important feature it turns out [12:32:33] So I could either find a way to transclude Special:WhatLinksHere or find a way for VisualEditor to autocomplete properties/relations [12:33:52] brb, restarting irc client [12:36:11] Good luck on working with Visual Editor. It's a pain in the neck, from what I hear. (Which might also be a deterrent for anybody who wants to use your wiki. Then again, I have not looked into it too closely, so it might not be that hard. [12:36:39] Btw, Semantic Forms also has an autocompletion feature, although not for free text. [12:36:53] Hmm you have probably saved me a few headaches, saying that. I'll avoid VisualEditor [12:37:15] What is free text? I'd only need it when creating a link [12:38:18] free text as in arbitrary wiki text containing links, formatting, whatever. As opposed to, say, a form field called "other ideas" where you just list the links [12:39:58] I should probably read up on Semantic Forms now, to better understand these features. [12:41:31] FoxT when you say VisualEditor is a pain in the neck, do you mean the user experience or the source code? [12:42:17] From an admin point of view. [12:43:06] From the user side it's nice enough. That's what it is build for, afterall: Enhancing user experience [12:43:52] What does the admin have to endure? Can it corrupt the database, or something like that? [12:44:38] Really, I don't know, only heard people complain. I know that it requires node.js to be installed on the server. [12:44:58] I see [19:01:03] Hi. [21:04:09] hihi [21:04:20] hoho [21:04:53] :-) [21:34:16] (Abandoned) Jeroen De Dauw: Replace usage of SpecialPage::getTitle with getPageTitle [extensions/SemanticWatchlist] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/103989 (owner: Legoktm) [22:13:15] FoxT: hi [22:14:54] huh: hi [22:15:59] FoxT, robolobster : is there a way to do so for "normal" pages? [22:16:07] using SMW [22:16:20] I think it would require some extension. [22:16:54] E.g. something that introduces a special property "links to" and sets it for every link occurring on the page [22:17:12] robolobster: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/mediawiki/341858 [22:17:15] is that you? [22:17:56] hi! [22:17:58] sorry [22:18:00] i didn't see this [22:18:28] huh, to do what, creating pages for red links automatically? [22:18:43] yes [22:18:51] oh nice! [22:19:00] thats exactly what i want to do [22:19:25] Oh hey! That's me! :) [22:19:27] lol [22:19:45] I thought I met a soulmate for a second. [22:19:45] That's from March... 2013????? [22:19:54] Yes sir [22:19:57] or ma'am [22:20:22] You should have come on IRC a year ago [22:20:41] Yes [22:20:48] I agree [22:21:39] I had a lot of problems with SMW IIRC [22:24:47] huh so is that idea using the hook the same to what you envisioned? [22:24:56] not entirely different [22:25:03] here's the job code https://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FSemanticForms.git/8ab4f7aab17510c013ee8becd21f8cbdd918b3aa/includes%2FSF_CreatePageJob.php [22:25:18] Yaron: any idea what would be the best way to extend that from forms to all pages? [22:25:51] Extend what? [22:26:02] To create all red-linked pages [22:26:11] What would go into those pages? [22:26:13] How did you find that huh? [22:26:24] robolobster: just searched git ... [22:26:52] Yaron: maybe the content of the link containing the redlink [22:27:05] if that is too hard, then just the page name that contained the red link [22:27:09] Really? [22:27:09] Would a hook be used? [22:27:25] Sure, you could use a hook for that. [22:27:47] Do both of you independently want this feature, by the way? [22:27:54] No. [22:27:59] I am helping robolobster. [22:28:04] But it is an interesting idea. [22:28:05] Ah, okay. [22:28:27] "Interesting" seems apt, yes. :) [22:28:54] :) [22:29:10] I wasn't so lucky 1 year ago when I tried this first. [22:29:19] What was the reason for wanting to create all those pages, by the way? [22:29:26] I gave up and returned to PersonalBrain only to lose a large amount of networked annotations. Never again! [22:29:28] We talked about this a few days ago, but I forgot. [22:30:01] Yaron, sometimes you want to create a bunch of thoughts and connect them together, and the thought might be contained in just the title. [22:30:38] But surely not every page represents a thought? [22:30:39] Being able to quickly create a cluster of thoughts and connecting them allows a different use of the software [22:30:51] Would that be wasteful? [22:30:53] Why not? [22:31:17] Well, it depends on your wiki's structure. [22:31:24] It seems like the natural way to go, given that connections are links between pages [22:31:48] I guess if there aren't any pages about something other than thoughts, then yes, that would be the case. [22:31:57] Unless there's a technical reason why that would be impractical, I don't see why it couldn't have a page for every thought. [22:32:16] Yaron correct, every page is a thought. [22:32:29] Not technical, just in terms of wiki structure. [22:32:39] I mean, "Main Page" isn't a thought, for example. [22:32:40] AFK [22:32:59] Yaron I see. The thought structure would be hierarchical, just like in the human brain. [22:33:17] Ah - I didn't know that's how the brain worked. :) [22:33:19] Oooh, philsophy: How would you call THE first and fundamental thought/idea. :D [22:33:20] Thoughts are composed of other thoughts and so on, in a recursive hierarchical fashion [22:33:22] It is :) [22:33:31] So do you plan to use SMW for this wiki? [22:33:40] Psychologist? [22:33:44] Neurologist? [22:34:02] FoxT good question! If you mean, which lies at the top of the hierarchy, I think you'll have many millions of thoughts at the highest levels of several interconnected hierarchies in a real brain [22:34:07] But here, a root node suffices [22:34:14] Cyberneticist? [22:34:17] Yaron that was my initial idea [22:34:22] huh I'm an AI engineer [22:34:22] "I am"? [22:34:28] :) [22:34:31] What would SMW be used for? [22:34:36] I wish I were also all of those things [22:34:42] robolobster: AI is cool [22:34:49] Yaron initially it was the only way I knew to produce transcludable backlinks [22:35:01] but huh suggested a much simpler way! [22:35:11] So you may not be using SMW at all? [22:35:53] Yaron I don't know yet. The minimum features for this to be usable would be: 1. Backlinks transcluded in each page, so you can see the context of a thought in the network [22:36:20] Alright. Well, your questions may be better asked in the #mediawiki channel. [22:36:30] Oh, fair enough. :) [22:36:34] I don't mean to be a buzzkill, though - feel free to keep talking about brain stuff, etc. here. [22:36:49] Yaron oh not at all, I understand! Thanks for the help. [22:37:08] We are still considering SMW as an option. [22:37:29] Eg. for the automatic creation of pages, another important feature [22:37:49] (I mean automatic population of red links). SMW has that for forms apparently, I think we were trying to figure out how to do that for normal pages. [22:38:03] huh is that correct? [22:43:00] (PS2) MarkTraceur: i18n-able-ize the [NEW] string [extensions/SemanticWatchlist] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/60961 [22:43:46] (CR) Jeroen De Dauw: [C: 2 V: 2] "Has issues yes, though most are already there. Net positive IMO" [extensions/SemanticWatchlist] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/60961 (owner: MarkTraceur)