[02:20:01] Hello, anyone active tonight? I have questions about semantic forms. [02:26:54] hello :) [02:27:21] tonight? it's UGT here isn't it? hehe [02:27:22] Hello! [02:27:39] morning :) [02:27:59] UGT? [02:29:41] I'm tryin to create a series of forms with semantic-form. That way I can create workflows. Would you know anything about how to set that up? It would be a huge cope for me at work. [02:33:39] you mean, one form needs to be done before another, that sort of thing? [02:34:20] Yes. Also, I would really like to branch based on the data. [02:34:38] I could start implementing one, but I really don't want to if I don't need to. [02:35:06] branch different bits of the form depending on input values? [02:35:31] does 'show on select' do what you want? [02:36:11] Different forms. So I can fill out a request, then if it's over a dollar value go one way and then have a "approve" or "deny" buttons. [02:39:47] My goal is to use forms for various processes like meeting minutes, part tracking, returns, etc. [02:40:19] can you do that in the template for the first form? display a button for the 'approval' form if over the dollar value? [02:40:45] No. I can't have the requester decide where it goes. [02:41:13] Hello! [02:41:34] You can have "approve" and "deny" buttons using #autoedit, after the page has already been created. [02:41:54] ...from within the page (i.e., template) itself. [02:42:04] Yaron: So autoedit works from inside the buttons? [02:42:52] It defines a standalone link or button, from within a page - not within a form. [02:42:55] I was looking at that and the documentation looked like it was only for links. [02:43:13] Oh... maybe that's right, maybe it can't create a button. [02:43:20] I don't remember now. [02:43:27] That's just a minor UI thing, though. [02:43:42] but the link could be made to look like a button. 'click here to approve' type of thing? [02:44:05] Well, definitely it could say "click here to approve"... [02:44:10] then it'd create a separate page recording the approval (date, user, etc)? [02:44:21] ...and yes, I'm pretty sure you could make it look like a button, via CSS. [02:44:41] No, it wouldn't create a separate page, it would modify an existing page. [02:44:43] samwilson: That could work. Can I put a link around a button? [02:45:30] Also, and my internet is messed up so I can't look it up, there is a field with says which form to use to display a blob of data. Can I modify that with autoedit? [02:47:51] yaron: the target attr of #formedit could be a different page though couldn't it? one that doesn't exist yet? [02:48:19] samwilson: it's... possible; I don't know. [02:48:37] WarWeasle: by "which form to use", did you mean "which template to use"? [02:48:43] I'm willing to do one hack, but more than that makes for strange behavior. It looks like I need to write an extension for forms. [02:49:13] warweasle: you mean, once it's approved, one of the fields of the template is changed to something different? [02:49:28] samwilson: Yes. [02:49:47] Yaron: Maybe I misunderstand what's going on. But there are forms which create pages than can have templates applied to it. [02:50:02] Templates applies to what? [02:50:13] s/than/then [02:50:45] s/applies/applied :) [02:50:48] Yaron: Pages? [02:50:55] Well, that's every form. [02:52:45] Yaron: I want to be certain I understand how forms work. A form holds the semantic data (and text maybe). The semantic data can be modifyed by a form which is set by category or a value in the data. Finally, the data can be displayed with a template. [02:53:26] That's not quite right - only the 2nd of those 3 statements is completely right. [02:53:55] A page holds template calls, which store and display semantic data; each page (ideally) has a corresponding form, that edits that page. [02:56:14] Ok, so the data is wrapped by a template call. [02:56:34] yaron: do you mean each *template* has a corresponding form? [02:56:44] That's how mediawiki knows how to transform. [02:57:16] samwilson: well... yes... that's mostly true too. Although a page can have calls to more than one template, and ideally only one of those sets the form. [02:57:35] forms are basically just nice ways to fill template parameters.. [02:57:38] oh, yes, good point [02:58:07] Right, exactly. [02:59:32] Yaron: So if I was going to create an extension, do you have any advice? [03:00:06] Well... I would definitely recommend first playing around with forms, to get a better sense for how everything works together, before you even think about creating an extension. [03:00:17] It could be that whatever you need doing is already doable. [03:00:49] Not to discourage people from getting involved in development, but it's rarely good to "reinvent the wheel". [03:01:35] i agree! i've just been tinkering with a SMW extension, and i'm wondering if I needn't have bothered [03:01:39] I mean, if you want to get involved in development regardless, that's great - there's no shortage of things that need doing. [03:01:43] Oh, okay. [03:02:00] samwilson: what's your extension? [03:02:10] SemanticMailMerge [03:02:21] for sending out email reminders and suchlike [03:02:38] Oh, interesting. [03:02:49] Based on predefined dates, or on events within the wiki? [03:02:57] Yaron: It's very close to what I need. If I can create arbitrary workflows and processes, it would replace half a dozen custom applications. [03:03:41] WarWeasle: well, again, I think it would help to play around with forms - at the very least to give you a clearer sense of what needs doing. [03:03:52] it takes any result set and, for each item, populates a template and sends that as email. so the recipient list, and the email content, can be dynamic [03:04:25] samwilson: that's pretty cool, actually. Do you know about the Semantic Tasks extension? [03:04:43] WarWeasle: we've got a few approval-based forms in use, and they seem to fulfil most use cases. [03:05:25] yeah, i looked at Semantic Tasks, but it wouldn't quite do what I wanted! hehe... the usuall beginning point for a new not-quite-round wheel eh! [03:05:46] samwilson: can they jump to different forms based on the page's data? [03:06:11] samwilson: Because a single example of that would be what I need. [03:06:17] yep. no reason that two forms can't fill the same template [03:06:41] and show different fields etc based on whatever [03:06:44] samwilson: Is it possible to swich templates? [03:07:33] with one form? no. but it shouldn't be necessary to, I think. a template can do an awful lot [03:08:35] samwilson: Perhaps I've been looking in the wrong place? I've been looking at the form's capibilities. Maybe what I need is in the template. [03:09:24] yeah, most of the fun stuff is done in the template, in my experience. [03:09:33] I can't access web based information right now. Is there something akin to an 'if' statement? [03:10:01] yep, either with parserfunctions {{#if:}} or Lua [03:10:46] Then I can use a hidden data value to keep state. [03:11:13] This is very exciting. [03:11:56] :) it's pretty cool once the possibilities become apparent [03:12:23] Well, finding out about the semantic extension was a mind-blower. [03:12:49] yeah. it makes MW so much more. i've been steadily doing away with a bunch of in-house applications [03:13:08] no more crud php things that don't quite do what they should [03:14:05] samwilson: Could you describe what they do, if it's not a breech of security? [03:14:25] I would really like an idea of how it's used inside another company. [03:15:59] one is a 'change request' process [03:16:24] coming back? [03:41:21] ok, I'm back. [03:41:44] But general intenet is still down. [03:44:56] I wanted to thank everyone for your help. So, thank you. [03:46:38] WarWeasel: glad I could help! [03:46:58] That sucks that you only have IRC, and that only sometimes. [03:50:02] I'm sure I'll be back in with questions/updates. [10:33:17] (PS5) Netbrain: Added automatic rezoom when searching for markers. [extensions/Maps] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/101828 [10:34:03] (PS6) Netbrain: Added automatic rezoom when searching for markers. [extensions/Maps] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/101828 [20:40:37] smw.org down... [23:15:01] installation of mediawiki-semediawiki 1.4.0-1 under debian with mediawiki 1.15.5-2squeeze6, followed the readme, step 3, but Special:SMWAdmin doesnt exist [23:26:25] thanks for all the help