[00:53:08] <kassim>	 hi smw
[00:53:41] <kassim>	 Im going to be hosting a smw pretty soon and I dont see a page on the wiki about hosting
[00:54:01] <kassim>	 can anybody share their experiences with a hosting company they use?
[14:13:33] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Foxtrott; "autoedit: wiki-format response messages" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticForms] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57840
[15:48:12] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Foxtrott; "autoedit: wiki-format response messages" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticForms] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57840
[15:48:58] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Foxtrott; [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticForms] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57840
[16:01:36] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Mwjames; "Split up ParserData responsibility, move diff update into DiffData" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57701
[16:07:49] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Foxtrott; "autoedit: use correct edittime" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticForms] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57847
[16:09:01] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Foxtrott; "autoedit: use correct edittime" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticForms] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57847
[16:09:24] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Foxtrott; [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticForms] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57847
[16:39:34] <hypergrove>	 hi - wondering about semforms ... how does the placement of the standard input tag in the form affect the display of the page?
[16:49:48] <Saruman>	 hypergrove: what do you mean by "standard input tag" and what with "the page"?
[17:02:52] <hypergrove>	 sorry never mind
[17:03:50] <Saruman>	 ok
[17:44:46] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Mwjames; "updateData() use Title->invalidateCache() instead of direct db-access" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57853
[17:59:57] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Mwjames; "SMW\DISerializer export formatting relevant info" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/52034
[18:00:23] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Mwjames; "Rebase" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/52034
[18:01:51] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Mwjames; [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/57445
[18:47:57] <kassim>	 hey saruman do you host a site?
[18:48:12] <Saruman>	 well... yes and no
[18:48:27] <kassim>	 oh ok
[18:48:51] <Saruman>	 I run my own home server, and also manage a couple of other servers that serve sites
[18:49:16] <kassim>	 oh that is awesome
[18:49:20] <Saruman>	 but I'm not a hosting provider or something
[18:49:33] <kassim>	 are you afraid you are going to lose power? lol
[18:50:25] <Saruman>	 not really.. I've got the power of root
[18:50:41] <kassim>	 that is something
[18:50:56] <kassim>	 I'm going to be hosting a site pretty soon
[18:51:08] <kassim>	 are there any special requirements for hosting a semantic mediawiki?
[18:52:06] <Saruman>	 sure, many
[18:52:17] <Saruman>	 most you'll probably already know
[18:52:34] <Saruman>	 http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Installation#Requirements
[18:52:36] <kassim>	 yeah Ive been getting familiar with the software
[18:53:00] <kassim>	 cool thanks
[18:53:04] <Saruman>	 if you want to be able to handle visitors from the Interwebs, you need a DNS record that points to your server
[18:53:21] <Saruman>	 also need enough bandwidth
[18:53:54] <Saruman>	 Need to configure the software surrounding MW - I'd strongly suggest a LAMP server
[18:54:17] <kassim>	 yes of course LAMP is good
[18:54:45] <Saruman>	 you'd need root rights or equivalent on both the L and the M
[18:55:13] <Saruman>	 it's wise to have your server patched to the latest security fixes for your platform
[18:55:26] <kassim>	 so shared hosting is not adequate?
[18:55:51] <Saruman>	 well, it can be; it often is
[18:56:10] <Saruman>	 but there are always extra "learning days" when you have insufficient access to the server itself
[18:56:36] <Saruman>	 days when you learn to use software and workarounds that you weren't planning on learning
[18:56:57] <kassim>	 yeah I can see that happening
[18:57:02] <kassim>	 root is very convenient
[18:57:34] <Saruman>	 sure, but it's plenty sufficient if you're allowed to run "sudo su -"
[18:57:55] <Saruman>	 that's what I got on my company's server
[18:58:12] <Saruman>	 I'm not root, but I can do anything I like :-)
[18:58:22] <kassim>	 can I do that on a normal virtual private server or is that something special I need?
[18:58:50] <Saruman>	 if you get a VPS, you'd usually get a root account for that
[18:59:27] <kassim>	 yeah I think I am leaning torward that option
[18:59:36] <Saruman>	 unless they call it "server" while they mean "shared hosting"
[18:59:50] <Saruman>	 yeah, VPS is pretty inexpensive these days
[19:00:33] <kassim>	 can you think of any company that has a good reputation for hosting mediawikis?
[19:00:56] <Saruman>	 I can't, but maybe Yaron can, if he drops by
[19:01:19] <Saruman>	 hosting mediawiki is essentially hosting a site with MySQL and PHP, that's very standard
[19:01:30] <kassim>	 yeah he would know for sure
[19:01:53] <kassim>	 thats good to know
[19:01:53] <Saruman>	 do you have some experience administrating a Linux box?
[19:02:25] <kassim>	 well its the only thing I run on my personal computers these days
[19:02:34] <Saruman>	 then VPS would be way better
[19:02:53] <kassim>	 as for a remote server, I dont have much experience
[19:03:03] <Saruman>	 ok, it might set you back some EUR10 per month, but the flexibility and power is much greater than shared hosting
[19:03:24] <Saruman>	 well the remote server is exactly like your local server, only you can't put CDs in it
[19:03:38] <kassim>	 lol
[19:04:03] <Saruman>	 your provider supplies some sort of control panel, and you can feed the remote server a CD image in some way, e.g. from your local CD player
[19:04:19] <Saruman>	 Or you order the VPS with a preinstalled distro
[19:04:23] <Saruman>	 <-- Debian man
[19:04:37] <kassim>	 debian is good
[19:04:39] <Saruman>	 then you'd get shell as root from the getgo
[19:05:29] <kassim>	 I'm working with arch now, but I think the packages are about the same
[19:06:19] <Saruman>	 biggest difference between distros is packaging system + repositories
[19:06:42] <Saruman>	 other than that it's all the usual Unix dialect issues
[19:07:29] <kassim>	 well I guess I have some shopping to do
[19:08:29] <Saruman>	 in which country are you located
[19:08:44] <kassim>	 im in the usa
[19:09:04] <Saruman>	 ok, I'm from the Old World, so I don't know your local market
[19:09:52] <kassim>	 yeah it seems like most developers involved with smw are from europe, is that the case?
[19:10:04] <Saruman>	 not particularly
[19:10:15] <Saruman>	 Yaron is pretty big dev, and he's from NYC
[19:10:39] <Saruman>	 but the founder of SMW is German, so initially development was a european affair, yes
[19:10:51] <kassim>	 yeah I see him as an author on most of the extensions it seems
[19:11:05] <Saruman>	 yeah he's active (fortunately)
[19:11:29] <Saruman>	 but also JeroenDeDauw (belgian)
[19:12:36] <kassim>	 by the way, do you know whether the watson computer that beat that jepeordy champion was using smw?
[19:12:56] <kassim>	 I thought I read that somewhere, but Im not sure of the source
[19:13:05] <Saruman>	 I'm pretty sure it didn't
[19:14:02] <Saruman>	 Watson had access to lotsa content including all of Wikipedia's articles, mebby that's what triggered your memory
[19:14:24] <kassim>	 yeah I think thats it
[20:18:29] <hypergrove>	 hi i am getting the error message "The inserted data results in an empty page title." ... anyone care to look?
[20:20:05] <hypergrove>	 this is semantic forms. one step method, where the name of the page to create is entered to a field in the form
[20:26:26] <hypergrove>	 misspelling forget it
[20:39:08] <Saruman>	 ok