[13:07:14] New patchset: Mwjames; "Support Lua/Scribunto framework in SMW" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56393 [14:35:18] New review: Jeroen De Dauw; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56393 [16:14:48] hi I have a custom namespace and I would like the articles to have semantic properties but they don't seem to be showing up [16:14:58] is there some more configuration I need to do? [16:41:18] kassim: yes [16:41:24] hi #semantic-mediawiki. can i ask what "Onto SMW" is ? [16:41:34] nostriluu: I had same question [16:41:54] it sounds kinda very intriguing [16:42:04] hehe [16:42:12] where's Jeroen when you need him... [16:42:21] scheming [16:43:41] dbolser: I found the $smwgNamespacesWithSemanticLinks array but I'm not exactly sure how to use it. do you just add the name of your namespace to the array? [16:54:25] kassim: I believe so yes, the symboic name [16:54:39] I'm not sure, I just vaguely remembered that it exits [16:54:51] he's always one step ahead... [17:00:26] dbolser: oh how to I figure out what that is for my namespace? [17:03:54] New patchset: Mwjames; "Support Lua/Scribunto framework in SMW" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56393 [17:06:11] dbolser: thanks for your help. It turns out I had to run the SMW_refreshData.php maintenance script after adding my namespace to that array. [17:07:49] New patchset: Mwjames; "Support Lua/Scribunto framework in SMW" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56393 [17:08:54] New review: Mwjames; "Lua returns with " [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56393 [17:11:06] kassim: cool [17:24:04] New review: Mwjames; "Of course Jenkins will fail" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56393 [17:31:27] New review: Mwjames; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56393 [17:36:38] is anyone aware of plans to add the GeoJSON format to semantic maps or know how I could find out about that? [17:37:04] kassim: talk to Jeroen when he comes in, Maps is his baby [17:38:05] dbolser: thanks [18:07:48] was curious to know what happens when we do a semantic search on localhost [18:09:08] saheb: can you explain? [18:09:57] I mean on what data doesn it perform semantic search? [18:12:35] dbolser: did u get it? [18:16:15] saheb: I'm not sure if you're talking about semantic mediawiki [18:18:32] It's kind of general for mw but I wanted to know what happens in smw [18:38:11] Localhost or some other host, it's all the same for my wikis. [18:38:29] You'll search you local content. [18:38:47] what do u mean by local content? [18:38:52] we need to add it? [18:44:10] saheb: as dbolser said, are you actually talking about semantic mediawiki? [18:44:34] as in "the MediaWiki extension called SemanticMediaWiki" [18:45:05] i tried semantic search on smw extension on mw and was curious why will i get a result for a query [18:45:16] ah ok [18:45:21] did u get my thing [18:45:51] queries (inline or in the semantic search page) relate to information in the wiki that's annotated with SMW syntax [18:46:17] i.e. categories, relations or properties [18:46:38] in my computer? [18:46:42] in your wiki [18:46:52] the wiki in which you installed SMW [18:47:02] so initially it will be empty right? [18:47:18] correct [18:47:25] I need to manually add data to test features? [18:47:34] yes [18:47:43] dats not fair enough [18:47:44] :( [18:48:10] it seems you expect something that SMW isn't designed to deliver [18:49:00] I mean I am new to the power of smw and want to test it [18:49:25] now u tell me I should have some data to test it [18:49:56] ...or you simply look at any of the semantic wiki's that are already using it [18:50:16] Visit any of these: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Wiki_of_the_Month [18:50:34] you can investigate how they use it without entering any data [18:51:35] We could provide some data with the smw extension, a small bit [18:53:22] I would be surprised if anyone using SMW would be pleased with extra, unwanted and unneeded data in his/her wiki [18:53:39] But a data extension... [18:54:04] exactly [18:54:15] for newbies [18:54:30] it's not for already who knows to create data [18:54:41] saheb: have you even read the SMW.org site? [18:55:08] http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:User_manual [18:55:38] yeah [18:55:50] so there are tons of examples there [18:55:51] I want to know what offende you [18:57:03] I'm not so much offended as I'm stumped [18:57:04] I can get examples from anywhere, I mean to say performing search on them after tweeking some code [18:57:38] what do you refer to if you say "code" [18:57:47] PHP code or semantic inline queries? [18:57:54] or something else? [18:59:13] Saruman: localhost [18:59:14] php or javascript ui [18:59:41] Saruman: why not tweek the code, afterall? [19:00:22] absolutely nothing against that, rather the opposite [19:00:30] I'm all for people diving in [19:01:07] Saheb, I just can't follow what it is that you need help with [19:01:17] I dived in today and tell me what can I do after installing smw? [19:01:27] I don't have data [19:01:34] let's do it the other way round [19:01:47] tell us what problem you would like SMW to help solve [19:02:10] it'll give us a better understanding what it is you need to learn [19:02:55] complex queries, which a normal user enters, means after understanding the semantics of the query [19:03:41] hmz, just about every word in that sentence needs explanation, with the possible exception of "the" [19:04:14] what kind of users do you want to service with a (semantified) wiki [19:04:15] I understand the meaning of those terms [19:04:28] good, then explaining them is easier :-) [19:04:38] take me for now [19:04:51] let me be a user before developing [19:05:00] ok [19:05:28] so what kind of user are you [19:05:40] what information are you interested in [19:06:12] Philosophy [19:06:14] by philosophers [19:06:18] ;) [19:06:20] ah! [19:06:39] philosophy will help you understand some of the concepts that SMW uses :-))) [19:07:00] it helps me with computer science a lot..;) [19:07:09] so there's tons of info on philosophy in Wikipedia - but that's all "flat" information [19:07:18] yeah true [19:07:28] what problem do you want SMW to solve relating to information on philosophy [19:08:02] which philosopher spoke on what issue on what time with whom? [19:08:24] that would make a nice query [19:08:37] so: different search entries into a vast set of data [19:08:51] SMW can do that, but -alas- not without previous work by humans [19:09:09] SMW cannot do automatic annotation all by itself [19:09:20] good luck [19:09:24] night [19:09:30] night, dan [19:09:43] good night [19:09:44] so before someone can fire queries like that on your wiki, you will first have to annotate the relevant terms [19:10:03] this *may* be very easy, but usually it isn't [19:10:23] I know that isn't easy [19:10:28] saheb, ultraquick recap of what SMW actually adds to a wiki [19:10:34] 1) the concept of classes [19:11:01] you don't have to do very much to unlock the power of inferencing, just create category trees, as ontologies [19:11:27] 2) the concept of attributes, e.g. "birth year" or "event date" [19:11:42] if the info contains the attribute, it needs to be annotated as such. [19:12:38] e.g. on article on Plato, born 428 BC, you'd have to annotate [[has birth year::428 BC]] [19:13:26] I got that bit [19:13:39] 3) the concept of a relation with another page, e.g. "birth place" or "has written" [19:13:48] is this stored in rdf , json, or any other? [19:14:03] sorry for interupting [19:14:20] on Plato, you could have [[was born in::Athens]] [19:14:33] in itself, the data is stored in the wiki text itself [19:14:47] behind the scenes, SMW adds some extra tables in the wiki's database [19:15:07] like? [19:15:07] if your MediaWiki is stored in MySQL, SMW adds some tables to the MySQL database [19:15:32] property IDs, page query caches... in short, "stuff" [19:15:40] normal users don't have anything to do with that [19:15:41] example on which tables are added? [19:15:58] and developers are encouraged to stay away, and use the SMW data handlers [19:16:11] ok.. [19:16:12] saheb, sorry no, I'm not a dev [19:16:41] dats fine [19:16:47] for example, the data backend has been upgraded from "SQLstore2" to "SQLstore 3" in the last big SMW update; lotsa changes in that backend [19:17:09] means a lot of tables are added [19:17:16] in backend [19:17:23] if I developed against the SMW data handlers, then no prob for me; if I accessed SQLstore2 tables directly, my extensions on top of SMW would have to be rewritten [19:18:35] nw it's getting a bit difficult to understand [19:18:43] New review: Mwjames; "(1 comment)" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56393 [19:19:12] so accept that SMW simply builds a little bit on top of MW, and concentrate on the front end [19:19:24] 1) class 2) attribute 3) relation [19:19:41] annotated information can be used in several ways: [19:19:51] Basically, Saruman is saying that if you use the tools that SMW gives to developers, you're protected when the technical parts ofSMW change. [19:20:12] Frank___ : precisely :-) [19:20:17] how do i test my front end? I need to get some data from somewhere [19:20:34] what are the tools? [19:20:42] just enter [[blabla::datavalue]] on some random page in your wiki [19:21:08] after that, page Property:Blabla will have a single entry, the page on which you entered it, with the value "datavalue" next to it [19:21:20] can i get such data which makes sense from somwhere [19:21:34] I got ur point Saruman [19:22:02] but it's motivational to work on meaningful data for developers [19:22:25] so copy philosophy pages from Wikipedia, and annotate meaningful data there [19:23:15] every dev has a different set of "meaningful", so it's very hard to create some central set of data [19:23:24] if anything, that data would be the content of smw.org itself [19:23:28] Saruman: Thankx for getting my basics clear, but as I developer I need a place where I can get annoted data [19:23:53] Manual work is hated by developers...;) [19:24:45] I know of no such place [19:24:48] I could take something from orgs using smw right? [19:24:58] orgs? [19:26:14] halo project or something [19:27:38] SMW itself doesn't do imports, but there are tons of extensions, either for SMW, or for MW proper [19:28:03] I will let u know if I find something useful...yeah I can use extensions of smw [19:28:09] thanx again [19:28:16] :) [19:28:22] np [19:28:31] good night.. Saruman [19:28:32] check out http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Data_Transfer [19:28:36] \o [19:29:01] yeah I will do that tom..:) [19:38:52] Saruman, you are quite the patient helper. Good on ya. [19:55:21] Hmmm... for a property with type date, I see the value can be defaulted to "now". [19:55:52] Is now also a legitimate value for the field? I need to implement "current" dates for my wiki eventually. [19:58:29] Like this: [[Has date::now]] [19:59:44] Or would I need to do somethng more like this: [[Has date::{{CURRENTDAY}}/{{CURRENTMONTH}}/{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] [20:08:19] Frank___: yes, you'd need the latter. [20:08:46] Frank___: but that still would mean you're recording as "now" the last edited date [20:09:06] although it would be "now" in any inline query [20:09:28] Saruman: that's not true, actually; in Semantic Forms, the "default" parameter only applies when the page is first created. [20:10:03] * Saruman confused [20:10:47] But the {{CURRENTDAY}} approach will work? That's good to know, [20:10:58] I was wondering how I'd get that to work. [20:11:09] if I annotate in page [[foobar]] property [[SomeDate::{{CURRENTDAY}}/{{CURRENTMONTH}}/{{CURRENTYEAR}}]]; wouldn't that store as the value of SomeDate in the SMW tables 2013-03-28? [20:12:14] Saruman: oops, sorry! I thought you were referring back to "default=now" in forms! [20:12:30] Reading it now, I see you were talking about the second thing, in the template. [20:12:57] well, to my shame I forgot to think about queries and forms [20:13:23] My primary concern somehow is always with getting the right data in; getting the right data out sorta comes second for me [20:13:41] (which seems natural for me because of GIGO) [20:13:55] Oh - now I'm confused as well, actually. [20:13:56] Oh well. [20:14:14] heh, drinks time, then [20:14:18] past 9pm here [20:45:28] Maybe if I stored it as {{CURRENTDAY}}... If that would store a literal {{CURRENTDAY}}, which then returns the current day value on retrieval? [20:45:53] I'll have to try this, I have no idea. Enough thinking, time to tinker. [20:48:28] Thanks for discussing that with me. [21:07:11] Hi guys. I moved my install to a test machine, and I'm seeing that my checkboxes aren't aligned, even though the checkboxSpan box I did months ago is still sitting in Mediawiki:Common.css. I feel like I've seen this before, but I don't recall what I did about it. I'm going through error logs now and fixing things, but nothing is jumping out to cause this. Any ideas? [21:15:24] salquint: what version of Semantic Forms is it? [21:16:56] 2.4, and old one. And it looks like none of my Common.css code is being loaded. [21:17:05] 2.4, an old one. And it looks like none of my Common.css code is being loaded. [21:18:28] Same install as on my current server, but I'm moving from Ubuntu to CentOS, and there are a few php/mysql/apache differences [21:24:10] salquint: okay, it's the Common.css issue, then. [21:24:28] That's weird! I don't know. [21:25:09] can anyone think of an easy approach to parse an array of geographic coordinates from the forms api? [21:26:24] yeah... I'll try on mediawiki, thanks [23:59:26] Hi everyone. Could I get some help setting up the Semantic Calendar