[00:31:12] <Demos74dx>	 yaron, I'm an idiot, I had my primary e-mail as my old military account that was deactivated, so the e-mail went there and I can't figure out a way to get the system to regen the e-mail for the new address
[00:32:03] <yaron>	 Demos74dx: ah, okay. Just sent me a private message with your email address, and I'll send the PDF to you.
[00:32:08] <yaron>	 (Just send)
[00:32:12] <Demos74dx>	 thanks
[03:57:46] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Mwjames; "SRF\DataTables (DataTables 1.9.4) implemented as SMWAPI Printer" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticResultFormats] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/46650
[04:43:58] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Mwjames; "Works as advertised with FF10, IE9, and C10." [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticResultFormats] (master); V: 2 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/46650
[06:38:15] <bonsaikitten>	 I wonder if anyone has a spontaneous idea why the format=sum output format is a noop nopw
[06:38:15] <bonsaikitten>	 now*
[06:38:15] <bonsaikitten>	 it does make things fail rather horribly, which is in general not a good thing
[06:42:19] <bonsaikitten>	 1.8 is a trainwreck ... :\
[12:21:46] <sven^>	 bonsaikitten: noop? I have problems with format=sum, too
[12:24:50] <sven^>	 is it ok to put __NOCACHE__ in a template? I guess it is rather bad practice because users using the template don't know that there is a NOCACHE on that page...
[12:45:46] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Mwjames; "SMWAPI Serializer add namespace information" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/46737
[13:13:38] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Mwjames; "Well, one could do:" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/46737
[14:58:12] <bonsaikitten>	 sven^: well, it makes no difference :) I can add format=whatever and I still get ignored
[14:58:27] <bonsaikitten>	 ... since I want to use the result of it as a number for display, well, FUUUUU
[15:53:38] <sven^>	 bonsaikitten: ok, it works for me.
[15:53:50] <sven^>	 yaron: your #replace solution for my format=sum problem was half ok.
[15:53:55] <sven^>	 but it still sucks like hell
[15:54:05] <sven^>	 the seperator SMW adds is language dependant
[15:54:06] <yaron>	 What do you mean by that?
[15:54:35] <yaron>	 Right - it can be either 1,234.05 or 1.234,05.
[15:54:45] <yaron>	 But in the case of your wiki, it's only one of those, right?
[15:54:52] <sven^>	 so if I look at it, it displays for example 3,500 and I use {{#replace:foo|,|}}
[15:55:15] <sven^>	 if a user who set his language to German, it displays 3.500
[15:55:17] <sven^>	 which is 3.5
[15:55:22] <sven^>	 and everything breaks again
[15:55:43] <sven^>	 and I cannot remove . from those strings, because they could be actuall decimal seperators
[15:55:51] <sven^>	 so actually the whole thing is just broken.
[15:56:09] <sven^>	 it's fine for displaying purposes, but you cannot do anything else with it
[15:56:57] <yaron>	 sven^: is that a serious concern, that a user might set his language to German, on what I'm guessing is an English-language wiki?
[15:57:12] <sven^>	 no, it's a german wiki
[15:57:21] <yaron>	 Oh.
[15:57:33] <yaron>	 In that case, doesn't it always display as 3.500?
[15:57:46] <sven^>	 but anyways, the interpretation of the data a function outputs should not be language dependant
[15:58:01] <yaron>	 That's true - I'm surprised that it's based on the user's language, not the wiki's language.
[15:58:21] <yaron>	 It should probably be done the other way.
[15:58:21] <sven^>	 actually the whole thing with adding sperators is broken
[15:58:36] <sven^>	 3.500 is 3,5
[15:58:47] <sven^>	 so as soon as I have values >1000 the output is just bullshit
[15:58:51] <sven^>	 it displays fine, but...
[15:58:57] <yaron>	 Sorry, I don't understand.
[15:59:15] <yaron>	 What interprets 3.500 as (what I would call) 3.5?
[15:59:22] <sven^>	 {{expr:
[15:59:28] <sven^>	 {{#expr:
[15:59:33] <yaron>	 Ah!
[15:59:52] <yaron>	 So why did you talk about 1,234 and so on before? That doesn't seem relevant to your wiki.
[16:00:05] <sven^>	 because it was 3,500 for me
[16:00:17] <sven^>	 I set the language to english in my settings
[16:00:20] <yaron>	 Why
[16:00:21] <yaron>	 ?
[16:00:28] <sven^>	 I like it better that way ;)
[16:00:42] <yaron>	 Er... okay.
[16:00:46] <yaron>	 Is this a wiki that you run?
[16:00:50] <sven^>	 yes
[16:00:55] <yaron>	 Got it. (Sort of.)
[16:01:32] <sven^>	 the problem is that if a user has the default language (German) it can never work
[16:01:45] <yaron>	 Well, it can be made to work, with a hack.
[16:02:05] <sven^>	 I need to disable the addition of those shitty seperators, yes
[16:02:36] <yaron>	 You would need three #replace calls, I think: one to change commas to some temporary string, like "XXXX", one to change periods to commas, and one to change the temp string to periods.
[16:03:08] <sven^>	 wait, what?
[16:03:19] <sven^>	 what about real periods then?
[16:03:28] <yaron>	 In order to change 1.234,05 to 1,234.05.
[16:03:36] <yaron>	 That's covered.
[16:03:51] <sven^>	 well, let's say I have 500.5 + 500
[16:03:58] <yaron>	 Three nested #replace calls.
[16:04:06] <sven^>	 that's 1.000.5 in German
[16:04:14] <sven^>	 and everything breaks
[16:04:27] <yaron>	 You mean 1.000,5 , I assume.
[16:04:58] <yaron>	 Where does the "500.5" come from?
[16:05:27] <sven^>	 a page covered by my #ask
[16:05:37] <sven^>	 oh wow. This is even more broken.
[16:07:01] <yaron>	 Well, I still like my three #replace calls hack, in any case.
[16:07:08] <sven^>	 wait please
[16:07:17] <sven^>	 I cannot enter values with a comma as seperator
[16:07:20] <sven^>	 only periods work
[16:07:29] <sven^>	 500,5 doesn't work
[16:07:29] <sven^>	 500.5 does
[16:07:34] <sven^>	 but it is displayed as 500,5
[16:08:48] <yaron>	 You can't enter them where?
[16:19:22] <sven^>	 sorry, had to get coffee with my boss
[16:19:46] <sven^>	 uhm, in a page. Sec, I need to debug this further.
[16:20:03] <sven^>	 it's a complex setup of templates and properties
[16:21:36] <sven^>	 Ok, I have this property, which is of Type:Number
[16:22:13] <sven^>	 If the language is set to German, I have to enter values with a comma as a decimal seperator
[16:22:17] <sven^>	 periods don't work
[16:22:49] <sven^>	 if I then #ask for those properties, I get a comma as a seperator
[16:23:00] <sven^>	 which is fine
[16:23:24] <sven^>	 if I use format=sum, I get periods in the result
[16:24:21] <sven^>	 e.g. 773,5 + 50,5  + 654,5 + 450 = 1.9285
[16:24:52] <sven^>	 and this 1.9285 is 1 + 0,9285
[16:25:07] <sven^>	 at least if I use it in #expr
[16:25:21] <sven^>	 and even if I don't, that period just makes no sense there
[16:25:31] <sven^>	 it should display 1928,5
[16:26:08] <sven^>	 or 1928.5, I don't care
[16:27:02] <sven^>	 I cannot fix that with replace, yaron. Is there any way I can remove that damn . before it gets added?
[16:27:10] <sven^>	 and actually it looks like a bug
[16:28:18] <yaron>	 sven^: yes, the "sum" format definitely seems to be doing the wrong thing.
[16:28:21] <sven^>	 if I set my language preferences to English, it works: 1928.5
[16:28:25] <yaron>	 But why doesn't the #replace hack work?
[16:28:44] <yaron>	 The one I just suggested, that is, not the previous one.
[16:28:45] <sven^>	 how would I use #replace on 1.9285 to get 1928.5?
[16:29:00] <yaron>	 Oh...
[16:29:23] <sven^>	 or let's say I have 1943,4328923 which will result in 1.9434328923
[16:29:24] <yaron>	 Now I get it - "sum" is really doing the wrong thing.
[16:29:30] <yaron>	 Hold on.
[16:30:03] <yaron>	 This is really correct - "773,5 + 50,5  + 654,5 + 450 = 1.9285"?
[16:30:17] <yaron>	 How is that happening?
[16:30:56] <yaron>	 Maybe you meant "1.928,5"?
[16:31:49] <yaron>	 Oh, now I think I get it - that value is what you get after calling the old #replace, that just removes commas.
[16:32:01] <yaron>	 That one's no good - you should try the new #replace hack instead.
[16:33:14] <sven^>	 oh my... give me a sec ;)
[16:35:10] <sven^>	 English: 1,928.5; German 1.928,5
[16:35:46] <yaron>	 Yes, fine. But as long as no one (including you) sets their language to be English, you can get around that issue.
[16:36:13] <sven^>	 yes
[16:36:22] <sven^>	 hacky...
[16:36:44] <sven^>	 can't I just disable those seperators in SMW_ResultPrinter?
[16:37:08] <yaron>	 I don't know.
[16:37:53] <sven^>	 I get that 4128423902 is harder to read than 4,128,423,902, but if it breaks other obvious things "people do with numbers", it should clearly be considered a bug
[16:38:49] <sven^>	 and the fact that there are different seperators for different languages just makes me wanna cry ;)
[16:51:08] <yaron>	 Yeah, me too.
[16:51:42] <yaron>	 And the fact that "trillion" in the US is the same as "billion" in a lot of other countries!
[16:51:52] <yaron>	 Thankfully, that one doesn't affect SMW.
[16:51:55] <sven^>	 well, maybe it's ParserFunction's fault not to respect different languages
[16:52:02] <sven^>	 oh yeah ;)
[16:52:43] <sven^>	 I just decided to remove all translations from my extensions... it's just a big mess.
[16:52:48] <yaron>	 So, I guess there are issues with both "format=sum" and #expr?
[16:54:36] <sven^>	 in my extensions? No, I have different issues. One of them is "it's just too much to translate" ;)
[16:55:00] <sven^>	 I am doing a 2 step replace for those sum/#expr problems now. It works fine
[16:55:08] <sven^>	 until someone changes his language settings
[16:58:04] <yaron>	 sven^: no, not in your extensions. Relating to number separators.
[16:58:30] <sven^>	 + I just realized that changing MediaWiki:CopyrightWarning only affects the default wiki language. Wow.
[17:19:41] <yaron>	 Yes, that's unfortunate behavior.
[17:29:35] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Jeroen De Dauw; "Skip test that required SQLStore3 when not using SQLStore3" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/46786
[18:18:21] <__Stephan__>	 Hi! What's the chat language? English or German?
[18:20:22] <__Stephan__>	 Anybody who can help me with SMW? I want to display the content of 3 categories.
[18:24:10] <__Stephan__>	 OK, bye.
[18:56:01] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Nikerabbit; "Can't test right now but should improve things." [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master); V: 0 C: 1;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/46786
[19:01:29] <yaron>	 Saruman: greetings!
[19:01:35] <Saruman>	 hey!
[19:01:59] <yaron>	 Hi - I saw that you added to the SF documentation a note about using #arraymap to replace "," with "|".
[19:02:10] <yaron>	 Couldn't you just do that with #replace, though?
[19:02:50] <Nikerabbit>	 hi yaron
[19:02:59] <yaron>	 Hello!
[19:03:04] <Saruman>	 could be... don't know #replace (yet)
[19:03:18] * Saruman  scurrying off to search the interwibble for #replace :-)

[19:04:53] <Saruman>	 gee... I just realize I could have used #replace :-)))
[19:05:37] <yaron>	 Well, I'm glad I helped point you to the wonders of #replace. :)
[19:05:52] <Saruman>	 yes, and thanks
[19:05:58] <yaron>	 It's probably the most useful of the string functions in ParserFunctions.
[19:06:14] <Saruman>	 heh, and to think I never even saw it
[19:06:25] <Saruman>	 although Im a heavy user of #sub
[19:06:34] <yaron>	 Oh, okay.
[19:06:46] <yaron>	 I guess #titleparts can be pretty useful too, now that I think about it.
[19:07:10] <yaron>	 Well, #replace is up there, anyway.
[19:07:46] <Saruman>	 and ofcourse the worst thing is, if you don't wiki for a while, almost all your extensions after updating turn out to have acquired even more wonderfulness :-O
[19:08:25] <yaron>	 Yes... well, that doesn't sound so bad.
[19:37:05] <sven^>	 what exactly does "enableSemantics()" in LocalSettings.php do and why can't they do it in the extension itself?
[19:38:52] <yaron>	 sven^: it's actually mainly used for setting URIs in the RDF export; but it's going away in SMW 1.9.
[19:40:35] <Denny_WMDE>	 i always liked enableSemantics()
[19:40:46] <Denny_WMDE>	 it had a nice touch in the localSettings :)
[19:42:23] <sven^>	 I j ust forgot it at a new wiki install, which lead to quite strange behaviour
[19:42:55] <sven^>	 Denny_WMDE: it's ugly. It looks like something that shouldn't be there, when I go through LocalSettings ;)
[19:43:37] <Denny_WMDE>	 it has personality ;)
[19:52:48] <sven^>	 yaron: that ,/. error is known for quite some time for ParserFunctions
[19:53:04] <sven^>	 there is a thread dating back to 11/2011 on the discussion page
[20:02:41] <yaron>	 I guess enableSemantic() has a nice ring to it - like "open sesame!".
[20:03:08] <yaron>	 enableSemantics(), that is - dammit, I ruined my witty observation.
[20:03:18] <Denny_WMDE>	 :D
[20:03:32] <yaron>	 sven^: yes, I'm not surprised by that.
[20:03:46] <yaron>	 Denny_WMDE: nice to see you active on this channel!
[20:04:13] <yaron>	 Especially today - big day for Wikidata! Or maybe that's tomorrow.
[20:05:41] <Denny_WMDE>	 no, right now
[20:05:49] <Denny_WMDE>	 it's active on he.wikipedia
[20:05:53] <Denny_WMDE>	 since about 5 minutes :)
[20:06:04] <yaron>	 Awesome!
[20:06:08] <Denny_WMDE>	 that's why i am active here, my mind is too excited to focus on doing actual work :P
[20:06:23] <yaron>	 Oh, I get it.
[20:06:43] <yaron>	 Too bad there aren't any really deep conversations going on right now.
[20:07:01] <yaron>	 So how does the data look in Hebrew? Everything is pointing the right way?
[20:07:14] <yaron>	 I mean - the left way? LOLOL
[20:07:47] <Denny_WMDE>	 :D
[20:07:56] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Mwjames; "(bug 44518) Don't display <li> elements for |format=list" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/46818
[20:08:13] <Denny_WMDE>	 http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII
[20:08:27] <Denny_WMDE>	 so far only language links
[20:09:03] <yaron>	 Yes, of course. Awesome!
[20:09:08] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: jenkins-bot; [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/46818
[20:30:31] <Demos_Work>	 hi guys, hi yaron
[20:30:38] <yaron>	 Hello!
[20:30:44] <Demos_Work>	 the book is good so far, wish I had even more time to read it.
[20:31:20] <yaron>	 That's good to hear.
[20:48:47] <Demos_Work>	 I have an issue thats kind of annoying
[20:49:39] <Demos_Work>	 I have a quick list of links in the site notice...sometimes when I click on one of them they become bolded, like I'm on that page...sure thats common, but when I leave the page it remains bolded and the link doesnt work anymore from anywhere, evenutally it just goes back to normal
[21:04:57] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Mwjames; "Since this updated class is using [1] the use statements are reduced to SMW, Html." [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticResultFormats] (master); V: 0 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/45780
[21:08:34] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Jeroen De Dauw; "If you think this change is no longer relevant, please abandon it :)" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticResultFormats] (master); V: 0 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/45780
[21:12:08] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Mwjames; "I can't abandon this change, I can only give a -2 but that's not really nice since you put in effort..." [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticResultFormats] (master); V: 0 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/45780
[22:09:16] <yaron>	 Demos_Work: that doesn't sound like a Semantic MediaWiki question, but anyway.... that's weird; I've never heard of that happening.