[06:31:57] * bonsaikitten  does not appreciate the wrong on-the-fly renaming of properties during upgrades

[06:32:15] <bonsaikitten>	 I liked Phone number, no need to break it ...
[06:59:07] <Saruman>	 bonsaikitten: wouldn't that be a bug then?
[06:59:20] <bonsaikitten>	 Saruman: maybe, maybe not
[06:59:43] <bonsaikitten>	 I can understand the idea behind it to normalize all flavours to one canonical property
[07:00:11] <bonsaikitten>	 but where it misfires is when you have a custom property and then it's not the same type and everything is bad
[07:00:39] <Saruman>	 ah
[07:00:44] <Saruman>	 complex situation then
[07:01:31] <bonsaikitten>	 and no error handling, as usual
[07:01:54] <bonsaikitten>	 took me a while to figure out why the templates reference Phone number when the property of the page is Telephone number
[07:02:32] <bonsaikitten>	 and of course my custom composite type doesn't fit into the built-in property, so they are now all zero
[07:04:22] <Saruman>	 that sucks
[07:04:35] <Saruman>	 back to the old version and backup, then
[07:05:07] <bonsaikitten>	 yeah, but now I need to figure out how to transform my way out of this trap
[07:05:29] <bonsaikitten>	 I could just do a one-line patch to avoid the coercion, but i'll forget about it in the next update
[07:05:56] <bonsaikitten>	 so I guess I turn "Phone number" into "freepPhone number", then fix all templates and hope I don't forget any
[07:06:31] <Saruman>	 you won't
[07:07:03] <Saruman>	 positivity my friend!
[07:07:28] <bonsaikitten>	 hah
[07:07:35] <bonsaikitten>	 I really dislike random patching like that
[07:07:54] <Saruman>	 so what can we learn from your woes
[07:08:13] <Saruman>	 what should change in the SMW dev process and/or SMW usage to prevent this
[07:09:19] <bonsaikitten>	 input sanitation, and proper error logging
[07:09:40] <Saruman>	 lack of proper error handlling also popped up in the mailing lists a few times
[07:09:46] <bonsaikitten>	 if you have stacked templates it's almost impossible to see which one errors
[07:09:58] <bonsaikitten>	 so I only see "not a number" and need to guess where the error happens
[07:10:09] <Saruman>	 that points in part to a need for some best practices in template construction
[07:10:21] <bonsaikitten>	 it does make sense to split out common parts
[07:11:05] <Saruman>	 you upgraded to SMW 1.8.0
[07:11:07] <Saruman>	 ?
[07:14:36] <bonsaikitten>	 yes, for testing
[07:15:01] <Saruman>	 I'm looking thru the release notes, there's nothing in there about phone numbers
[07:16:24] <Saruman>	 I'm a bit confused about what went wrong in the upgrade
[07:16:36] <Saruman>	 and confusion over upgrading is scary :-/
[07:17:14] <bonsaikitten>	 the type was added in 1.5.0
[07:17:28] <bonsaikitten>	 let me try to isolate the exact change that causes the problem
[07:17:35] <Saruman>	 your wiki public?
[07:18:42] <bonsaikitten>	 no
[07:18:53] <bonsaikitten>	 $m_DatatypeAliases in languages/SMW_LanguageEn.php
[07:19:16] <bonsaikitten>	 line 51 in 1.8.0
[07:19:42] <bonsaikitten>	 it aliases "Phone number" to the internal type "_tel" which is canonically printed as "Telephone number"
[07:19:53] <bonsaikitten>	 (which is even worserer, because that is a language-specific fuckup)
[07:21:10] <Saruman>	 i concur
[07:21:34] <Saruman>	 Shouldn't use "Phone"
[07:21:35] <bonsaikitten>	 the idea of the alias is nice, but, ahem, don't just rename properties ...
[07:21:54] <bonsaikitten>	 they do have a meaning, changing it to a random unrelated string is usually the wrong thing
[07:22:18] <Saruman>	 I'd say this warrants a mail to the dev mailing list
[07:22:30] <bonsaikitten>	 I won't stop you ;)
[07:22:39] <Saruman>	 I'm sure you won't
[07:22:53] <Saruman>	 my boss however expects a whitepaper on ArchiMate modelling before the end of this year
[07:23:27] <bonsaikitten>	 silly boss, no sense of priorities ;)
[07:23:29] <Saruman>	 plus it's very hard to describe a problem that you personally haven't
[07:23:33] <Saruman>	 i concur!
[09:16:33] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Nischayn22; "The change reverted here had a tiny bug... submitting a new change shortly which removes this bug an..." [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMaps] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38614
[09:50:40] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Nischayn22; "Reapply adding metadata to geoShapes, with bugfix" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMaps] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38696
[16:40:33] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Demon; [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticSignup] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/34087
[17:57:25] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Nischayn22; "Draw polygon from $cur_data" [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38734
[17:57:25] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Nischayn22; "Autocenter on Polygons and other shapes." [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/36700
[18:00:36] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Nischayn22; "add current value into the textbox for googlemapsEditor" [mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMaps] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38735
[18:02:51] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Nischayn22; "PS2 is just a rebased change. I would like to put some effort on re-factoring only if it gets throug..." [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (master) C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/36700
[19:50:44] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Nischayn22; "Small typo fix" [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (3.0.x) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38746
[20:04:22] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Jeroen De Dauw; [mediawiki/extensions/Maps] (3.0.x) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/38746
[22:20:37] <faceface>	 hihi
[22:20:50] <faceface>	 Anyone know how to use #show with sio?
[22:21:53] <faceface>	 can't work out what to use for pagename
[22:31:08] <faceface>	 hi jeroendedauw_
[22:31:20] <faceface>	 what do you expect this to produce:
[22:32:05] <faceface>	 {{#vardefine: mapped | {{#ask: [[Ontology mapping::+]][[Term::{{PAGENAME}}]] | mainlabel=- |? Term ID }} }} {{ #var: mapped }}
[22:32:19] <faceface>	 cus I can't get rid if the 'Term ID' lable
[22:36:57] <faceface>	 {{#ask: [[Ontology mapping::+]][[Term::{{PAGENAME}}]] | mainlabel=- |? Term ID # - }}  <- no joy
[22:37:38] <faceface>	 this is really frustrating
[22:38:30] <faceface>	 basically 'mainlabel=-' don't work :(
[22:50:35] <faceface>	 got it: | mainlabel=-
[22:50:44] <faceface>	 {{#ask: [[Ontology mapping::+]][[Term::{{PAGENAME}}]] |? Term ID = | mainlabel=- }}
[22:51:03] <Nikerabbit>	 how about using #show?
[23:01:06] <Pladask>	 Hi, is there a neat way to do something {{ #ask: [[Category:Foo]] [[!Category:Bar]] }}?
[23:01:17] <Pladask>	 s/something/something like/
[23:04:10] <faceface>	 Pladask: I don't think so...
[23:04:19] <faceface>	 Nikerabbit: this is a query for an SIO
[23:04:24] <faceface>	 so I don't have a page name
[23:07:17] <faceface>	 Pladask: it isn't mentioned here: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Selecting_pages#Things_that_are_not_possible
[23:08:24] <Pladask>	 faceface: Then it must be possible!
[23:10:01] <Pladask>	 Thanks anyway, I'll go and invent something =)
[23:13:09] <faceface>	 Pladask: It rings a bell
[23:13:11] <faceface>	 ;-)
[23:17:54] <faceface>	 night night