[01:43:27] with PageForms, is it possible to make one specific item (like the first one) to have a set parameter that can't be modified? [01:45:07] I have this small cargo query in a custom table, but the way it works is there's a parameter called table, and if that's set to start (and it's the first one), it will also include the tag. And then the other ones after that don't need this parameter set anymore [12:33:54] Hi [14:38:37] Does anyone know if Wikibase properties can be imported? I am aware that entities can be but am not sure about properties. [14:38:55] I tried to import one using Special:Import but it timed out. [14:39:37] And I am not interested in bother Sysadmins with something that may not be possible. [14:39:43] *bothering [15:01:39] R4356th, hrm, that's a good question. I'm not sure to be honest. If I had to guess, I'd probably say no. Items might be, though, since they resemble wiki pages, in a broad sense. [15:03:54] I can at least tell you that I was not thrown an error stating something like that. 😛 But it could have been the timeout. [15:04:31] It did yell at me the first time I tried because I had not enabled entity import. [15:04:37] oh [15:04:50] is that on your Snap! Wiki or one of your other wikis? [15:05:16] Snap! Wiki [15:05:22] ah [15:06:49] R4356th, this blog post might be helpful (https://wikidata-tech.wikimedia.narkive.com/wxOQyYr6/how-to-import-wikidata-entities-to-another-wikibase). It seems to suggest importation of WikiBase properties is done via the API? [15:06:50] [ How to import Wikidata entities to another Wikibase ] - wikidata-tech.wikimedia.narkive.com [15:08:01] Hrm maybe not, it might be possible actually [15:09:03] Unless I am misunderstanding it, properties can be imported. [15:09:42] yeah, that's what I read too now [15:10:01] Wikibase modifies core to a not-so-small extent and Special:Import and the importdump.php maintenance script are just two of such components. [15:10:16] except I do see from this page (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki-Vagrant#How_to_import_a_Wikidata_dump), that it seems like `importDump.php` maintenance script is used to import properties, so maybe they can only be imported via the maintenance script? [15:10:17] (Or was that import.php?) [15:10:17] [ MediaWiki-Vagrant - MediaWiki ] - www.mediawiki.org [15:10:52] I think that assumes you have shell access. [15:11:02] yeah [15:12:01] "Allow importing entities via Special:Import and importDump.php." -ManageWiki [15:12:12] What is `allowEntityImport` set to in LS.php? [15:12:22] assume it's set to `true` since that's default [15:12:36] It is a setting in MW and is set to false by default. [15:12:51] I set it to true for Snap! Wiki. [15:12:58] It's set to false by default? [15:13:27] oh [15:13:29] Yes, that's how I found it some time ago and I do not remember changing that. [15:13:37] well if you set it to true, then that should be fine [15:14:01] but maybe this was just a straight up 503 error. Were there a lot of revisions associated to the property you tried to import? [15:14:14] I'll likely fix that to be true instead, if that's the default with Wikibase. Reception123: any ideas why that'd be false default instead? [15:15:28] Guess I will be a little bold and create a Phab task. And while I haven't checked the number of revisions, it probably is high as it was a high-use property (Twitter username). [15:15:43] yeah [15:15:53] Thank you for the help! [15:16:03] I'd probably suspect that's what happened actually then, and a maintenance script import is probably best [15:16:04] np [15:28:13] no idea :( [15:29:14] Reception123: because it is the Wikibase default after all. [15:29:24] oh [15:51:01] Hey when will MW supoort php 8.0? [15:52:56] Soon™️ [15:56:28] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/4652/ [15:56:30] [ PHP 8.0 support ] - phabricator.wikimedia.org [16:32:40] can someone show me a wiki using [[mw:extension:urlGetParameters]]? [16:32:40] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/extension:urlGetParameters [16:32:41] [ Extension:UrlGetParameters - MediaWiki ] - www.mediawiki.org [16:33:02] i'm not understanding exactly why isn't working for me, so I can see on other wikis how it works [16:34:09] thinks a magic word that does this would be helpful [16:35:19] What are you trying to do, @Lake ? [16:36:39] I just wanted to see how can I get the URL of a file and how many people edited the page [16:36:55] (like the info in "Information about this page" i think that's the name in english) [17:33:24] @Reception123 if you can query later, I would be very grateful :))) [17:39:07] @Lake hi, what exactly do you need? [17:40:10] oh hey. It's because I'm using the extension URLGetParameters, but the documentation is very limited and there's nothing on the talk page. So I would like to see if you could query a list of wikis using this extension so I can see how it works [17:43:27] ah, sure thing :) [17:45:09] @Lake here you go https://phabricator.miraheze.org/P398 :) [17:45:10] [ ✎ P398 wikis that use URLGetParameters ] - phabricator.miraheze.org [17:46:35] oh thanks a lot! [17:58:12] No problem [18:27:33] lol, of this entire list, only 7 actually use it on-wiki [18:27:40] and literally all of them are korean and japanese [18:32:00] Hello CrystalClear! If you have any questions, feel free to ask and someone should answer soon. [18:40:04] Good day folks! :)  I'm just now exploring Miraheze, coming from a self-hosted wiki. I'm also looking after a friend's self-hosted wiki but looking for some options on where I could move his wiki to, if for some reason I could no longer maintain it for him (I have Multiple Sclerosis and my practical girl logic says, always best to be prepared and [18:40:05] have a plan B, C, D). Also, we've got some game wiki counterparts over at Fandom that are pretty tired of the invasive ads... I'd like to have a wiki to explore Miraheze functionality and how stuff is done, so I can give half way decent help to folks looking to find a better platform. I see there's a testwiki, though it's unclear to me if folks can [18:40:05] change and test skin customization and other configs there. Also, I'd need a more in-depth testing that could be done easily and then reverted quickly. Also, I was an instructional designer for my local health authority in another life before medically retiring... I'd be interested in helping with some Miraheze help documentation at a later point [18:40:06] of that was permitted (I checked the contribution pages but see I lack enough experience/edits on a Miraheze wiki to help out yet). [18:40:40] Okay, so I'm flagged for repetition in my typing and it says "stop now, or automated action will still be taken" lol [18:41:06] I supposed I said the M-word too often. [18:42:53] Perhaps I could create a M-wiki about my personal journey learning to use the m-platform (and document that as such)? Would that be allowed if it were made very very clear that it's completely unofficial and just one user's learning experience? [18:43:48] I know a bit about The Adless Wiki Host - and I self host a wiki, but I worry about disk space usage [18:44:02] Perhaps it might be a good idea to add the M-word and the W-word to a repetition word allow list? [18:44:44] TinyPNG is a great tool for optimizing disk space usage... I don't dare add the URL here though lol. [18:44:48] They have a lot of em, bits-you-add-on that are useful to play with, I like The Wiki Host in Question, helpful staff [18:44:58] I think the bot is a bit too sensitive pehaps :P [18:45:19] What kinda add-on-code would youw ant to play with? [18:45:31] Yeah, I looked at a few options and M-farm came out on top for sure. [18:46:20] Well, first I want to see if I could get the extensions and highly customized version of Pivot to resemble what we currently have on DML W-word lol [18:46:44] I use The Wiki Farm With The Yellow Icona lot, what add ons do you want ? [18:47:22] You can google DML Wiki, that's the friends wiki which I host and customized for them. Am just getting them started on data tools like DPL3 and Cargo (Cargo is on our 1.35.0 site--issues with 1.35.1 on apache) [18:47:39] I think they have Cargo on the wiki farm in question [18:48:22] Yeah, I'm aware of the extensions and skins they have, and so what they offer is compatible with our current needs, that's why I recommended to them Miraheze [18:48:28] But, I need to test more extensively [18:48:59] I use Cargo on my wiki :) [18:49:02] How much diskspace does your wiki use? [18:49:20] and there are talks about adding other DB extension as well [18:49:35] Nice [18:49:43] Cargo suits our needs pretty well. [18:50:00] oh, and there's also Wikibase available [18:50:18] DPL worked for automating a lot of our data tables to reduce maintenance burden but is much more limited [18:50:19] (although I never used this one and seems a bit complicated) [18:50:42] I'd have to look at disk space. [18:50:50] well, DPL works well for certain tasks, but when you have a lot of pages, it starts to be a bit expensive [18:50:58] I had to teach them to optimize with TinyPNG etc. [18:51:02] Set image size limts [18:51:11] Before I moved them to my own hosting. [18:51:29] I wonder as I self host my own wiki, and I have only 160 GB of space on the HDD of my VPS (there is only 1 pic on the entire wiki) [18:51:32] At current we aren't fully optimized. I should go look at the disk size limitations for Miraheze [18:52:03] Why do you want to move over to the Place Where Wikis Live Under the Yellow Flower? [18:52:05] well, there's no limit on MH wikis, technically [18:52:18] Ah, I'm surprised by that [18:52:34] but there are pages on Meta about the total size of servers [18:52:40] (and other technical specifications) [18:53:06] We use a VPS with a 30GB limit and before optimization they had like 15 GB, which I refused to take them on at since I can host dozens of sites on that space so long as one isn't being an unoptimized space hog lol [18:53:25] Now it's much less than 5 and we're not anywhere close to done optimizing yet. [18:53:35] My site is 3GB [18:53:53] Yeah, depends on how many images are used, at what size/quality etc. [18:53:57] One image [18:54:25] Original file ‎(693 × 915 pixels, file size: 211 KB, MIME type: image/png) (the image in qustion) [18:54:28] Oh, we have several thousands. [18:55:05] I just know we need to be respectful of users on mobile devices and not use up all of the bandwidth... took me a while to get the admins trained on this hehehehehh [18:55:13] What can I do to opizmise my mostly text basic site? [18:55:42] That's probably a good question for the Miraheze staff. [18:56:13] Or is this your self-hosted site? [18:56:37] CrystalClear: hi [18:56:43] Would you mind if we moved thos to DM so we don't log the channel with offtopic CrystalClear ? [18:56:46] Hi Rhinos :) [18:56:56] Also was the message you got about repeating words from Sigyn ? [18:57:11] Yep [18:57:18] Would you mind if we moved thos to DM so we don't log the channel with offtopic CrystalClear ? [18:57:38] BurningPrincess1: here is fine [18:58:00] CrystalClear: I'll chase that up. Did you say 15GB of images? [18:58:00] Are you able to see my original message that was flagged by Signyn/bot [18:58:01] ? [18:58:05] Are you sure, its kinda going to be offtopic> [18:58:12] jess: please check Sigyn and sort it out [18:58:17] BurningPrincess1: yes I'm sure [18:58:24] :) [18:58:34] CrystalClear, your dragons are cute [18:58:36] That was total size of their wiki before I taught them some image-web standards and optimization [18:58:38] CrystalClear: the people behind it will have some logs [18:58:38] check out what [18:58:48] jess: Sigyn going off on nice people [18:58:53] Heheheh [18:58:57] i'll wave my magic wand. [18:59:03] It's okay, bots can be a bit tempermental ;) [18:59:17] paladox: what sort of space we got left for files? [18:59:18] CrystalClear, how can I omizmize my wiki (mostly text based) [18:59:31] BurningPrincess1: use the compress text option [18:59:53] Oh, will exporting and stuff work still RhinosF1 ? [19:00:05] BurningPrincess1: yes [19:00:07] RhinosF1 we have plenty of space [19:00:22] CrystalClear: ^ [19:00:22] well, to optimize disk space on any project, I usually just use "worse" version of file types [19:00:28] like jpgs instead of pngs [19:00:31] I'm trying to figure out how you guys are replying to specific messages lololol [19:00:32] or mp3 instead of flac/wav [19:00:34] we have 709G left out of a total of 2tb [19:01:15] CrystalClear: just typing your name at the start [19:01:31] is there any wiki that takes over 1gb right now? :O [19:01:32] Ah, okay thanks@ [19:01:47] *Thanks! [19:02:13] @Lake: I'd guess so [19:02:17] @Lake: yes, I think so. [19:02:33] Hmmm interesting [19:02:42] So dare I repeat my message or will our misbehaving bot sanction me? [19:03:09] I don't know because Jess has disappeared is the honest answer [19:03:24] I can add some characters to attempt to fool it lol [19:03:29] Yeah [19:03:55] php compressOld.php does not seems to exist [19:04:30] BurningPrincess1: maintenance folder [19:04:45] Already in there [19:04:58] Could not open input file: compressold.php [19:05:17] well, I think URLGetParameters doesn't work the way I imagined [19:05:19] oh well [19:06:00] RhinosF1, Could not open input file: compressold.php [19:06:03] I'm looking after a friend's self-hosted wiki but looking for some options on where I could move his wiki to, if for some reason I can't maintain it (I have Multiple Sclerosis and my practical girl logic says, have a plan B, C, D). Also, we've got some counterparts over at Fandom that tired of the invasive ads... I'd like to have a w-iki to explore [19:06:04] M.ir-aheze functionality and so I can give half way decent help to folks looking to find a better platform. I see there's a testwiki, though it's unclear to me if folks can change and test skin customization and other configs there. Also, I'd need a more in-depth testing over a longer period of time than what could be done easily or reverted [19:06:04] quickly as the Tes/tW/iki's rules. Does M-ira*he_ze allow new w/i^kis for t/est purposes? [19:06:16] BurningPrincess1: check in #mediawiki [19:06:26] BurningPrincess1: Because it is not just maintenance folder, it's it's `maintenance/storage` [19:06:37] yep, simple chars confuse it... nice. [19:07:05] CrystalClear: we have publictestwiki.com but if you want a full wiki then you can request one [19:08:55] Yeah, my other thought is, I'd like to help with M*irahe$ze docs at some point too (former instructional designer, medically retired)... but lack the privileges unless I work on an m-w#iki. So, maybe I could request one for my "learning journey" with M-i-r-a-h-e-z-e if I make it abundantly clear it is an unofficial, and just one user's learning? [19:09:05] Would something like that be permitted? [19:09:17] I'm thinking then it might also help to demonstrate some ability to create helpful docs. [19:09:31] Thanks, I'll check that out too [19:09:46] yeah, that's the one I already looked at [19:10:10] Problem is, the type of testing that I want to do (full skin customization and extension tests etc) can't be easily done and quickly reverted as the rules for that site say. [19:10:45] CrystalClear: we can definately advise you on helping with docs, even official ones [19:10:50] We need help with docs tbh [19:10:57] Yeah, that's what I was thinking. [19:11:11] Hm, seems compessing the revs made the wiki use more RAM and I see no change is disk space use [19:11:19] you can test skin modifications on the user.css/.js (if that's allowed on testwiki) [19:11:45] I guess I'll request some kind of "unofficial" "journey" through the use of m*i*r*a*h*e*z*e (sorry I have to add chars so the bot doesn't boot me lol) and see if that gets rejected. [19:12:11] When compressOld.php is used, can I still delete old revs? [19:12:46] BurningPrincess1: that's 2 seperate issues [19:12:52] The type of testing I require will be too hard to revert right after I'm done then continue working on... for test wiki [19:13:03] @Lake: it should be [19:13:12] CrystalClear: you can get your own wiki if there's need [19:13:14] Brain with MS needs more time than simple quick-edits and reverts allow. [19:13:23] So, can I delete old revs after compressOld.php is used? [19:13:27] Yes [19:13:33] :) [19:13:38] Thank you [19:14:07] Yeah, I'll give that a try to request a wiki for this, though it'll completely depend on who reviews the request as to if they understand my aim. [19:14:31] And on me to see if I'm able to communicate it clearly. [19:14:43] you can request a personal wiki to talk about miscellaneous things as well [19:14:50] Thanks for the help [19:15:07] I have my personal wiki where I basically talk about things I like [19:15:07] And a personal wiki can be "open"? [19:15:12] Nice [19:15:16] I wondered about that... [19:16:08] I find there's some fogginess in the docs as to what's allowed or not, probably it's just me expecting things to be a bit more explicit. [19:18:07] I was going to remake the docs of ManageWiki, but I got so busy with other things and my main wiki that I rarely access meta now :p [19:18:22] The instructional designer in me also wants to see things like, on the "Request A Wiki" page, a link to the content policy to help user nav. [19:19:32] @CrystalClear: that's actually not a bad idea at all. I might look into implementing something like that. [19:19:41] Usually I'd do a quick analysis of a user's desired performance... they want a w*i*k*i. Then I'd ask myself what do users need to know and do before getting a wiki? Then I'd provide links to those relevant resources. [19:20:17] To help with a bit of wayfinding [19:20:19] Yeah, that's a very good idea I think. [19:20:43] Hi Universal_Omega :)  --Thank you again for fixing DPL3 [19:20:49] heheheh [19:21:02] Hi CrystalClear, and of course! [19:21:09] How would I find the database size of my wiki? [19:21:54] yeh, usually I think the problem non-experienced users have with open source software it's because the programmers assume something is obvious, but it's not always [19:22:22] Okay, so I'll go request a wiki and make clear it's a personal wiki for my personal journey learning M*ira_heze (I think that's the repetition word the bot didn't like heheh) and I'll say it's to help organize resources for myself. [19:22:43] Yeah, providing resources for new/novice learners is really heard when a person is advanced/expert. [19:23:15] I would call myself a notice [19:23:17] Then, if any organization of resources is found to be helpful, I can use these as examples to pose on Meta. :) [19:23:18] *novie [19:24:06] I'm by no means an expert either... maybe.. moderate. [19:24:07] but anyway. Does anyone know a method to get API info (like props, page size, etc) without using JS? [19:24:24] for some reason I thought we had [[mw:extension:external Data]] [19:24:25] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/extension:external_Data [19:24:26] [ Extension:External Data - MediaWiki ] - www.mediawiki.org [19:24:29] Still lots of stuff I'm novice in [19:24:44] Thanks for the info folks! [19:24:50] @Lake url on api.php [19:25:33] Better term for me, Technologist--jack of all trades master of none lol. [19:25:36] yeah, but is there a way I can display that on the page (on wiki)? [19:25:56] I don't think so. [19:26:16] CrystalClear, I would think my database is maybe 2 GB now I compressed the old revs [19:26:19] Also, I previously declined External Data extension, can't remember why, but I think security. [19:26:30] @Lake: ^ [19:27:23] oh right. I'm trying to find a way to do that. I don't think UrlGetParameters work as I imagined [19:28:18] BurningPrincess1 Nice! [19:28:50] Sorry to question and run folks, desperately needed a nap or a huge cup of java [19:29:09] I'll be sure to check back in at some point though ;) [19:30:08] @CrystalClear: you can let me know when you request the wiki, and I'll review it, and approve/create it if request looks good, and if no one else does first. [19:31:09] BurningPrincess1: you'd have to find where it's stored first [19:31:26] Em.. /images? [19:31:43] Pretty sure there is a folder for images for MW [19:31:50] BurningPrincess1: ye [19:31:56] You can use du or ls [19:32:15] Thanks! [19:33:19] What can I do to compress it? [19:35:11] BurningPrincess1: very little for images [19:49:26] I wish there was a {{NUMBEROFEDITS}} but for a single page instead of the whole wiki [19:53:19] @Lake, yeah, that could be interesting, though do you mean by user or by all users on a given page? If the latter, you can fairly easily calculate the number of revisions on a given page, and I think there's even a magic word for it. If the former, yeah...that's interesting; should be able to get that data via the API and write a small JavaScript potentially. Alternatively, you could also use the Editcount extension, though that only gives total [19:53:19] edits by namespace [19:53:31] Hi dmehus [19:53:41] s/total edits by namespace/total edits for a user by namespace [19:53:56] hi, BurningPrincess1 :) [19:54:02] dmehus, I Dmed you [19:54:33] I just wanted to display the total edits of a page [19:55:09] I'm trying to make my docs of templates similar to github/gitlab, where the "X commits" would be "X edits" :p [20:00:02] @Lake, let me check one thing actually [20:01:22] @Lake, I was checking if `$wgMaxCredits` was set to `-1` on a wiki if it just showed all the editors to a given page or if it also showed how many revisions there was, but it was just the former [20:13:30] Hi again folks. [20:13:39] Hi CrystalClear [20:13:53] It was as I thought, my request was immediately denied, even after putting a note about Universal Omega please reviewing it heheheehh [20:14:26] CrystalClear: yeah that was dmehus, I think he's suggesting using your username in the subdomain/sitename [20:14:31] Rather than my [20:14:53] You can edit from https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:RequestWikiQueue/17293#mw-section-edit [20:14:54] [ Wiki requests queue - Miraheze Meta ] - meta.miraheze.org [20:15:06] Yeah, I was thinking of when my username changes... was planning to do that at some point so I can't be connected to my other wikis [20:15:41] We can rename wikis if you change username [20:15:46] I see. [20:15:52] I say we, I mean Reception123 in reality [20:16:06] So personal stuff must always be attached to a username? [20:16:21] Ideally [20:16:23] I wish this was somewhere in the documentation... or anything about personal stuff really. Would be very helpful [20:16:43] Our documentation lacks at times [20:17:36] I just personally don't enjoy any username being in the spotlight, it's an INTJ thing lol [20:18:14] Okay, I'll have to rethink this [20:18:17] Thanks anyhow. [20:18:22] It's ok [20:20:35] I was also unable to find anything in docs about how to get my account renamed... [20:20:46] Checked the FAQ, did a search.. [20:22:49] .mh Special:GlobalRenameRequest [20:22:49] https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:GlobalRenameRequest [20:23:20] CrystalClear: ^ [20:25:10] Yep, thanks. [20:25:13] Much appreciated [20:31:18] Now I'll just wait and see if my username is approved... there's always a way around the problem heheheheh ;) [20:47:29] dmehus: ^ [20:53:17] I'm still editing my initial request, apologies, numb fingers so takes me a while to type some stuff lol. [20:54:41] It's ok [21:01:08] I initially toyed with the idea of creating an educational wiki for MSers learning positive ways to cope and thrive, but, that's a bit of a rabbit hole lol. Now I made the request generic as a personal learning organizer and have different sections for whatever topics I choose to dabble in, be it Miraheze or personal growth stuff. I'll miss having [21:01:09] a username that reflects me, but, not the end of the world. [21:07:09] CrystalClear: okay [21:09:25] CrystalClear: Soon to (hopefully) be: MirahezeUser. [21:15:38] Though if that is frowned upon as a username I will have to think of something else semi-generic [21:25:32] RhinosF1, looking [21:28:15] No hurry, I'm just hanging out while I do stuff in other tabs. [21:30:11] CrystalClear, I do have some concerns with your chosen username as it (a) implies it's a shared user account and (b) may confuse with the `user` group in MediaWiki. It essentially is like a named anonymous user, the latter of which may violate the spirit if not the letter of our Username Policy. Can you choose something else that is more specific and unique to you, something that users will know you by? [21:30:33] In short and for what it's worth, your existing username does that [21:31:53] Okay, would RandomUser be okay? [21:31:56] It also matches our title blacklist entry, ```The chosen username matches the following TitleBlacklist entry: .*(\bm|M)(?i:iraheze).*```, so yeah, I'm going to decline this. [21:32:00] why so generic? [21:32:05] why not CrystalClear? [21:32:14] I don't like things being associated to my personal user name honestly. [21:32:30] Just choose a brand new username that you don't use elsewhere [21:32:35] You have a rule that personal stuff must be personally named.. [21:33:05] CrystalClear: I often feel that way myself. I recommend randomly picking a word or two and making a username from that [21:33:37] `RandomUser` would also confuse with a user who wished to vanish themselved (different than GDPR of course), so yeah, see Sario's advice ^ [21:33:51] it doesn't in any way have to be tied or linked to your usernames elsewhere [21:33:54] That way that name is only associated with that wiki [21:34:18] So, if I were to pick some generic topic like... LearningTangents for example... then have the topics I want as random learning tangents, you'd be fine with that? [21:34:24] Yeah, you could pick two words from the dictionary, or pick a random word and adding a numerical qualifier [21:34:38] yeah that seems fine [21:34:43] Then I could divorce myself from the rule of attaching things to my personal username [21:34:52] yeah [21:34:54] Okay great [21:34:56] Then I'll do that [21:35:01] I'll decline this one then [21:35:10] https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Main_Page has a random word button [21:35:10] [ - Wiktionary ] - en.m.wiktionary.org [21:35:41] Yeah, it's in essence the same thing, just skirting how it was framed [21:35:53] Sometimes it's all how we frame stuff I guess [21:38:11] So, I can assume that both requests were declined then? [21:39:18] oh, good idea, Sario [21:41:05] lol I keep getting non-English words to pair with Russian :P [21:42:07] Okay, wiki creation request changed to "learningtangents.miraheze.org" [21:42:52] It's for any user's learning tangent, thus not a personal wiki. [21:43:01] Thus not requiring me to have my username in it. [21:43:05] (I think) [21:43:11] okay [21:43:14] I'll look at that [21:43:24] but aren't we doing a global rename? [21:43:30] or are you still thinking of that? [21:43:32] And, I'll think about some other username [21:44:14] Depends on if you're going to view that as a personal wiki or not... [21:44:17] yeah, you can use the same username as your wiki, provided you're a `bureaucrat`/`sysop` on the wiki or have the local wiki community's endorsement to use that username [21:45:04] Personally, I'd rather not have my username match the wiki [21:45:24] But I'm having to play by Miraheze's rules here, which I'm still learning. [21:45:54] On my own independent wiki I tend to change my username frequently. I don't plan to do that on Miraheze, because, well frankly it's being a pest lol. [21:46:52] I'm finding a lot of things unwritten so being a new learner to Miraheze, I have to find the information by stumbling into a making a mistake. [21:47:03] That's fine, it doesn't have to match your wiki; my concern is that the purpose of your wiki seems to be closely related to Meta Wiki in terms of user essays and documentation on Miraheze tips & tricks [21:47:18] Being for random learning tangents? [21:47:27] that's why I suggested including your username in your wiki's sitename and/or subdomain, to make it clear it's your personal blog wiki [21:47:55] One of which will be learning how to use miraheze form a novice perspective which frankly Meta doesn't seem to have? [21:48:20] Hmm, okay. [21:48:27] ping dmehus [21:48:28] is it not about providing Miraheze cheats, tips, and tricks, or all random learning tangents? If the latter, your purpose and scope needs to be clearer. Can you write a few sentences in your wiki request description? [21:48:41] hispano76, yeah, what can I do for you? [21:48:44] see Stewards' noticeboard [21:48:46] Well my initial purpose for coming here is to get a wiki to see if Miraheze is a place I'd move my friends wiki when I can no longer maintain it (because I have MS) [21:48:48] looking [21:48:52] I'm a forward planning individual [21:49:02] The best way to do that is to get a wiki and get my hands dirty [21:49:19] Then begin writing out some noob instructions for them who don't know how to administer a wiki at all [21:49:28] They came here, looked and were immediately lost and confuseld [21:49:31] *confused [21:49:47] So, I thought I could do a multi-purpose exploration here.. [21:49:58] hispano76, yeah...that'll need a Phabricator task for a sysadmin to manually clear your Echo notifications on `turtlewikiwiki` [21:50:05] can you raise a task on Phabricator? [21:50:40] I would probably assign the `Database` and `MediaWiki (SRE)` projects to it and triage as `normal` [21:51:10] I thought I could kill a few birds with one stone. Thoroughly investigate if the extensions and skins provided here match their use well enough, start some interim noob docs for them (not miraheze), but then I thought.. if the Miraheze docs seem lacking to noobs maybe I could help there too... though not my aim at this time. [21:51:27] *to see if it matches their use well enough [21:52:12] Basically I wanted a sandbox wiki because it's impractical to test all of what we want tested in the test wiki provided. The rule of immediately reverting everything gets in the way of that [21:53:51] So I came up with a few concepts for a long-term helpful wiki... but just keep hitting one roadblock after another. [21:54:02] I can't help on meta because I don't have enough wiki editing to do that. [21:54:15] I can't edit a wiki whose content might be of some help later on down the road on meta. [21:55:07] I'd like a purposeful wiki that seeks to meet some practical need [21:56:27] So basically, in order to get the experience required to help out anywhere, I'd have to help on or create some other wiki I have no basis for practical application in? [21:57:05] I find that to be a bit of a hinderance to the spirit of engaging in the awesome community of practice you guys are building here. [21:57:14] I don't know what my options are at this point. [21:57:57] I suppose a lot of people might skirt this issue by creating a wiki they have no intention of maintaining... that to me just seems dishonest. [21:58:04] And unfair to you guys. [22:00:19] Hrm, that sounds a bit like a combination TestWiki, Meta Wiki, and (a bit) Miraheze Template Wiki. Can you not write that content on those wikis, since that's what it is about? [22:00:55] I don't have privileges required to add stuff to meta documentation and can't get those privileges without having a history of editing lol [22:01:27] Also, TestWiki as I mentioned before requires users to immediately revert their edits. [22:01:31] What permissions are you needing? [22:01:47] That doesn't allow for the in-depth testing I wanted to do for the wiki we were considering moving over here at some later point. [22:02:15] > Also, TestWiki as I mentioned before requires users to immediately revert their edits. [22:02:15] That's on the special test pages. You can still create as many templates or pages in your userspace and you don't have to revert those [22:03:36] I'm not wanting to work with templates I'm wanting to mess with config changes, customize a theme globally, but mostly get step by step information on how a person would come to Miraheze, what they need to read and do to get their own wiki and set it up and customize it from scratch. I can't even run through that process myself! [22:04:03] dmehus: https://phabricator.miraheze.org/T7015 unfortunately, I leave you in charge of answering :P [22:04:04] [ ⚓ T7015 Phantom" notification from a private wiki, TurtleWiki ] - phabricator.miraheze.org [22:04:20] Well, I mean, we do have documentation wikis, but they're usually regarding some piece of software. Miraheze-related documentation should generally be maintained on Miraheze and Miraheze Template Wiki, so maybe just think about all the things you want to write about on your wiki, then describe that in your wiki description, clearly and specifically, and pick a subdomain and sitename that encapsulates that [22:04:21] I could create a lousy throwaway to do that but thought I'd actually trying to do something meaningful since I have a degree in EdTech and was instructional designer--before my brain started melting from MS lololol [22:04:53] Yeah, I thought I had done that [22:06:30] But you want it to be a public wiki, which is my concern. If this were a personal private testing wiki, rather than a public wiki, that noted your (new) username in the sitename or subdomain, then yeah, we have approved those. We just prefer not to approve wikis that are substantial duplications of existing community wikis like Meta, TestWiki, and Template Wiki. [22:06:59] But it isn't because none of these sites explain things from a novice perspective. [22:07:01] why don't you make a public wiki comparing and contrasting different learning management systems and educational technologies? [22:07:06] lol [22:07:21] that would be interesting [22:07:26] I might even contribute there :D [22:07:44] I had enough of that in my Masters and am sick to death of these topics. I think we all have personal learning tangents, where we take a deep dive into learning something new. [22:07:53] That's the whole point of a community of practice [22:07:59] Which is what Miraheze is [22:08:34] Can you define a few specific learning tangents around which your wiki will focus? You could then devote a namespace to each specific tangent, as an example. [22:08:37] In my personal opinion, that's the general approach to leaning here. [22:08:46] Community of practice model [22:09:00] Yes, one of my examples said this explicity [22:09:14] Coping well with MS was one of the explicit topic examples I gave [22:09:25] Learning Miraheze was another [22:09:54] how is your day? dmehus [22:09:57] I considered some topics on what MediaWiki is and isn't (people often approach it with the wrong things in mind) [22:10:01] This sort of wiki should be a closed-ended wiki, with the tangents clearly described in the wiki request; otherwise, my concern that this may evolve into a Template Wiki / TestWiki / Developers Wiki / Meta Wiki fork [22:11:00] Yeah, I can see why, I made the mistake of disclosing the future idea that something like that might be helpful for new/novice on meta (eventually, some day). [22:11:02] CrystalClear, can you think you think about it a bit more? Something related to MediaWiki could work, as long as it's not Miraheze-related documentation, as that should go on Meta. (Note administrators can import any templates you require on Meta.) [22:11:40] I need a topic here that has no practical application so I can make documentation elsewhere for folks that find the meta docs lacking for new/novice users. [22:11:50] Yep, I'll think of one, and keep it to that. [22:12:31] Then, I'll make the documentation in google drive that we need for our users to make a leap to Miraheze. [22:13:14] And make sure I slather it with "unoffical" - "from a users pespective" [22:13:22] Like any EdTech blog would do [22:14:05] Or wiki. [22:14:29] This is one of my favorites though outdated (students learn by doing) http://edutechwiki.unige.ch/en/Mediawiki [22:14:30] [ Mediawiki - EduTech Wiki ] - edutechwiki.unige.ch [22:14:59] And if some day, Miraheze meta users find something from this helpful for new/novice learners, great. [22:15:23] I'll have a place to point to for suggestions for doc improvements at least [22:15:43] And I'll frame it as such [22:16:09] Suggestions. Because everyone's opinion on what is helpful is different. [22:17:51] I just find it... strange that the mods openly admit the docs are lacking but it's so hard to find a way in to help with that. [22:18:11] Even if a person has the best of intentions [22:18:22] Thanks anyhow. [22:18:29] Have a good day all! [22:20:37] I forgot to ask a parting question if I may [22:20:48] sure? [22:20:49] Are there limits to what we are personally allowed to put on our user pages? [22:21:24] So, if I create a personal organizer there and slather all over it that this is for my personal use only... is that going to get me in some unseen hot water? [22:21:34] Not really, no, as long as it doesn't violate Content Policy or isn't an obvious test page etc. [22:21:59] Great, thank you [22:22:07] I mean if you want to draft documentation in your userspace on Meta, that'd be totally fine [22:22:26] We have some users with many subpages of their own userspace [22:23:14] If you're familiar with the Translate extension, we can grant you the `translationadmin` user group to allow you mark translated pages on Meta for translation, if that'd be helpful [22:23:40] I won't be able to document much but I'll be able to create a basic organizer and wayfinder of disparate resources and add some notes and suggestions that I can proffer at least [22:23:56] if you wanted, I could even create a namespace for you on TestWiki, that would be clearly marked [22:24:14] that would give you the necessary user rights you require to draft your documentation [22:24:25] No, but thank you anyhow. I appreciate the offer. [22:24:28] and also ensure your content isn't deleted by other admins on that wiki [22:24:30] oh ok [22:24:35] Thanks for answering my question. [22:24:42] no problem [22:24:47] Cheers [22:25:00] .tell CrystalClear and if you decide on a new username for yourself, please do submit it [22:25:00] dmehus: I'll pass that on when CrystalClear is around. [22:29:32] * hispano76 see dmehus [22:33:23] hispano76, I see and I see Turtle84375 has replied, so they may grant you `member` temporarily [22:41:11] hispano76, see their reply on SN...they've given you temporary `member` privileges (until this time tomorrow) to clear your Echo notifications [22:58:10] dmehus: [22:58:31] I do not see the save changes button in preferences.. [22:59:23] hispano76, you shouldn't need to save changes. All you need to is uncheck the blue icon in the red bell (notifications icon) [23:00:31] no, nope [23:01:52] It does nothing! [23:06:16] hispano76, hrm, it should clear your notifications. Let me take a look [23:07:34] I wonder if it's because they've restricted the `viewmyprivateinfo` user right [23:07:43] Let me message Turtle84375 on their wiki [23:08:16] nevermind, that's included within `user` [23:09:22] ah found it I think [23:14:24] hispano76, I messaged Turtle84375 [23:34:51] * hispano76 he feels lost